“Not if and when they put so much emphasis on Calvinism that they make others think they are lost if they don’t agree with him.”
Instead of talking about vague “theys,” you should stick with who you are talking to or about. Spurgeon certainly wasn’t of that opinion, and neither am I. Otherwise we’d both be condemning ourselves, having begun with your opinion, and only later coming to this truth.
“However, what he means is we are all chosen, not just some.”
That’s directly contradicted by the scripture you didn’t comment on. The Jews there weren’t chosen. Christ was specifically explaining why it was they did not believe. It says, “there are some of you that believe not... Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.” How is it a “therefore” if Christ was affirming that they had indeed been given it from the Father? His statements make no sense with how you read it. Therefore, they do not believe, not because they received it from the Father to believe and then rejected it; they do not believe because “no man can come unto me, except it is given from above.”
The same is true in many other places. For example, according to you, the Pharisees did not believe and therefore ceased to be the sheep of God. But the scripture says they did not believe, BECAUSE they were not His sheep.
Joh_10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
According to you, the Gentiles who heard the preaching of the Apostles believed, and were therefore ordained to eternal life. But the scripture reverses the order:
Act_13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
And most terribly, you make the election of God to be of no effect, since all are elected to the same blessings, but the power of God is ineffectual to bring anyone to Christ. It must be improved upon by the individual’s personal righteousness. The whole golden line of salvation, therefore, from the call, to the justification, to the glorification, is completely false:
Rom_8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
“I do not think Jesus was telling Nicodemus that he had to be one of the chosen.”
Certainly He does, because the Holy Spirit is a free agent in salvation:
Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
The Spirit blows “where He listeth,” according to His own will, and not the will of man.
“Gee, it sounds like God wants all to come to repentance, not just certain individuals chosen above others, but ALL...because when you claim that only the elect are chosen, then you also claim that many were created for the sole purpose of going to a hell that was created for Satan”
It says “to us-ward,” who have received the promise, distinguished from the scoffers mentioned earlier:
2Pe 3:3-4 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, (4) And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
And who are also described as having been “appointed” unto condemnation in the previous epistle.
1Pe 2:7-8 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, (8) And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
The same in Jude:
Jud 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
And by Paul, the vessels which are ‘fitted for destruction,” in contrast to the vessels of mercy chosen before the foundation of the world:
Rom 9:20-22 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? (21) Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? (22) What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
And certainly Christ here prays only for those given to Him out of the world, and not these scoffers who ‘crept in unawares.’
Joh_17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
So we see that the vessels of wrath are indeed “appointed” to their condemnation, though it is incorrect to say that God is the author of their sin. We affirm that no man is saved unless God has snatched Him. And we affirm that no man is condemned because God made them to do evil. Rather, God passed them by “to leave in the common misery into which they have willfully plunged themselves, and not to bestow upon them saving faith and the grace of conversion; but, permitting them in His just judgment to follow their own ways, at last, for the declaration of His justice, to condemn and punish them forever, not only on account of their unbelief, but also for all their other sins.” (Canons of Dort, First Head Article 15)
This is because man, by nature, does not understand or seek after God.
Rom 3:10-12 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: (11) There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. (12) They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
One would think that if you were such a stickler for “all,” that you would take it seriously when “all” and “none” are capable of doing what you claim you did.
So, if “all” are gone astray and do not seek after God, how did you come to seek after God? Was it a spark of goodness that you possessed which no man else did?
As an "ism" follower, you would rather follow the teachings of a man who was born 1500 years after Christ was crucified. Instead of following the teachings of the man we are called to follow, the One crucified. God Himself.
An "ism" follower is a person who follows the teachings of men instead of our Creator, Savior, and Author of our faith, our Lord Jesus Christ.
You would rather hang your salvation on the false doctrine that God created some of us for salvation, and others for damnation. I disagree.
I do not believe God is cosmic rapist. We are not "Chatty Cathy" dolls that He created. He created us with a free will, so that we would love him willingly.
That is what this whole life thing in the world is about. One chance to love Him or reject Him. Those who accept His love and love Him back will receive the righteousness of Christ. Those who reject His love, won't. "Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, Nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous" Psalm 1:5
If God did not want us to have free will to chose or reject Him, then He would have no reason to make the world with sinful men to populate it. If we are chosen with no choice, then He had no reason to become a man who would be brutalized and murdered on a cross for sins He did not commit. After all if, as Calvin taught, we have no choice in the matter of whether or not we would love Him, then there was no reason for Him to do all He did.
That being said, the best way I can debate your misguided thinking is to prove you are wrong by using the scriptures that speak of man's free will in choosing to follow God, or to reject God.
What follows are various Scriptures from both the Old and New Testaments where the Word of God tells us that man has a free will to accept or reject His love, and ultimately Salvation.
“As for you, my son Solomon, know the God of your father, and serve Him with a loyal heart and with a willing mind; for the LORD searches all hearts and understands all the intent of the thoughts. If you seek Him, He will be found by you; but if you forsake Him, He will cast you off forever. 1Chron28:9
"If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it." (Gen. 4:6-7)
"I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live." (Deut. 30:19)
"And if it seems evil to you to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.” (Josh. 24:15)
“Wash yourselves, make yourselves clean; Put away the evil of your doings from before My eyes. Cease to do evil, Learn to do good; Seek justice, Rebuke the oppressor; Defend the fatherless, Plead for the widow.“Come now, and let us reason together,” Says the LORD, “Though your sins are like scarlet, They shall be as white as snow; Though they are red like crimson, They shall be as wool. If you are willing and obedient, You shall eat the good of the land; But if you refuse and rebel, You shall be devoured by the sword”; For the mouth of the LORD has spoken." (Isa. 1:16-20)
"Seek the LORD while He may be found ,Call upon Him while He is near. Let the wicked forsake his way, And the unrighteous man his thoughts; Let him return to the LORD, And He will have mercy on him; And to our God, For He will abundantly pardon." (Isa. 55:6-7)
"Sow for yourselves righteousness; Reap in mercy; Break up your fallow ground, For it is time to seek the LORD, Till He comes and rains righteousness on you." (Hos.10:12)
“Now therefore, speak to the men of Judah and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, saying, ‘Thus says the LORD: “Behold, I am fashioning a disaster and devising a plan against you. Return now every one from his evil way, and make your ways and your doings good." (Jer. 18:11)
“Now you shall say to this people, ‘Thus says the LORD: “Behold, I set before you the way of life and the way of death." (Jer. 21:8)
"Now therefore, amend your ways and your doings, and obey the voice of the LORD your God; then the LORD will relent concerning the doom that He has pronounced against you." (Jer. 26:13)
“Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways,” says the Lord GOD. “Repent, and turn from all your transgressions, so that iniquity will not be your ruin. Cast away from you all the transgressions which you have committed, and get yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. For why should you die, O house of Israel? For I have no pleasure in the death of one who dies,” says the Lord GOD. “Therefore turn and live." (Ezk. 18:30-32)
"But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily to God; yes, let every one turn from his evil way andfrom the violence that is in his hands. Who can tell if God will turn and relent, and turn away from His fierce anger, so that we may not perish? Then God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God relented from the disaster that He had said He would bring upon them, and He did not do it." (Jon. 3:8-10)
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!" (Matt. 23:37)
"I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish." (Lk. 13:3)
“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”(Jn. 3:18-21)
"And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, “Be saved from this perverse generation."(Acts 2:40)
"Then Peter opened his mouth and said: “In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality. But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him." (Acts 10:34-35)
"Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead." (Acts 17:30-31)
"But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered." (Rom. 6:17)
"Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God." (2 Co. 7:1)
"Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work." (2 Tim. 2:21)
Therefore lay aside all filthiness and overflow of wickedness, and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls." (Jas. 1:21)
"Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you. Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded. Lament and mourn and weep! Let your laughter be turned to mourning and your joy to gloom. Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and He will lift you up." (Jas. 4:7-10)
"Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit[a] in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart." (1 Pe. 1:22)
"And the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let him who hears say, “Come!” And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely." (Rv. 22:17
**The Spirit blows “where He listeth,” according to His own will, and not the will of man.**
But what saith Jesus Christ?........”..how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ASK him.” Luke 11:13
**Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.**
As a former Calvinist (my first 28 yrs in a very conservative, studious Presbyterian congregation), I was taught there was NO tongues anymore, NO remarkable sound coming from an uncertain location. It’s a real eyebrow raiser to hear a family member suddenly speak a language you KNOW they had not previously known. In my first witness to such a scene was one of “What? Where do that come from? She’s never done that before!”. The Lord said there would be a SOUND, and He said that that would be the case for EVERY ONE that is born of the Spirit.
Many that pull John 3:16 up for salvation (which IS a wonderful verse), fail to notice that the Lord had just explained in verses 3-8 the proof of believing on Him (if any man have not the Spirit of Christ he is none of his).
Thou art a leader among Calvinists, and knowest not these things? (sorry....couldn’t resist)