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To: ShadowAce

“Titus 2:11 says “For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men” (emphasis mine)”


By this is meant the Gospel of the grace of God has appeared to all men, but not that all men are the elect of God, since to be the elect you must have far more than just the “appearance” of the grace. It must work within you, revealing to you that Jesus is the Christ. Here is the Gospel called “the gospel of the grace of God.”

Act 20:24 ... to testify the gospel of the grace of God.

The Gospel certainly has “appeared” to all men, yet in the ears of the reprobate it destroys them; they have “no cloak for their sin,”(John 15:22); they are unable to deny their guilt, and so in this case the Gospel of the Grace of God brings to them destruction, “being disobedient; whereunto also they were appointed” (1 Pe 2:8); and again, ungodly men “of old ordained to this condemnation” (Jud 1:4).

In contrast, those who are “ordained to eternal life believed” (Acts 13:48); as they were never ordained to condemnation, but instead are infallibly brought to the LORD because they are His sheep.

“I agree. I never said God isn’t involved in the conversion from carnal to spiritual. He provided the Grace, without which, none would be saved.”


And yet He did not provide it to the Jews in John 6. It was never given to them at all by God to believe.

“It makes God to be arbitrary, ruthless, and cruel—without any justice or mercy to those He created for the sole purpose of throwing them into Hell. “


How is it cruel for God when the natural man freely plunges himself into sin and refuses to believe? What does it mean when the scripture says:

Rom 3:10-11 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: (11) There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

There is no spark of goodness in man hiding around somewhere for God to just awaken. Man is corrupt to the innermost part of his soul. If it comes to be that you seek after God, you certainly don’t have yourself to blame, but the mercy of God on an undeserving sinner:

Php_2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Jer_24:7 And I will give them an heart to know me, that I am the LORD: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God: for they shall return unto me with their whole heart.

If God is just in condemning people who deny Him to hell, how does it follow that God is obligated to give His mercy to anyone? If damnation in hell is justice, then shouldn’t mercy have a right to select its own? “Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?”, “Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God?”

“He is consistent, and offers the same chance at Salvation to all men.”


If that was true, then everyone would have the same EQUAL chance. Yet for centuries the Indians in the Americas had never so much as even heard the Gospel. Millions of people have died and gone to hell without their road to Damascus moment. Others have died due to the disobedience of ministers in preaching the Gospel to them, leaving them instead to live oblivious to the importance of salvation. At least if we take this from your position, for I argue that it is God who raises up men to preach his Gospel, and so ordains it before the foundation of the world that it should be done, so that none of the elect can ever fail to hear the Gospel and convert.


64 posted on 06/27/2013 2:40:20 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
By this is meant the Gospel of the grace of God has appeared to all men, but not that all men are the elect of God,...

If you're going to twist Scripture that badly, then there is no way to talk any sense into you. It does NOT say the Gospel has appeared to all men (and it hadn't at the time it was written), it says that the grace that brings salvation has appeared to all men. That is past tense, not future, it it plainly says grace, not gospel.

If you insist on holding on to your twisted view of plain scripture, then please don't reply. I'm done.

66 posted on 06/27/2013 2:54:41 PM PDT by ShadowAce (Linux -- The Ultimate Windows Service Pack)
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