Posted on 06/18/2013 5:22:54 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
(21) Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
(22) What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
(23) And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
agreed. the enormity of creation is overwhelming for a cosmic accident. Impossible to imagine existence springing forth from bupkus.
Of course it isn’t. In fact it’s ludicrous in that it requires faith in something that cannot be seen. The same argument they use to condemn believers. My retort to them is, I respect your belief. I may even agree with your belief. However, if it is true then they were all created by the same creator. You must agree that it would take an intelligent being to have created many copies of the same concept as random occurrence could not possibly have done so. So you do believe then that there is a creator. I knew we believed the same thing. Thank you and have a blessed day.
Only in your mind......
It's not a problem because God tells us that Satan has been defeated and He doesn't *need* multiple universes to accomplish that. The death of Jesus on the cross took care of that.
We're still in the middle of everything. You can't pass judgment on God until it's all been completed and you see the end.
Speak for yourself.
What was your previous screen name?
I never could understand the need to separate the two.
FYI. Something you might want to incorporate into some Sunday sermon. I consider this “The Great Multiverse Crapshoot.” BTW, I understand that the force of gravity if just the very smallest bit larger or smaller would have prevented the formation of the universe. The percentage is astronomically small. I believe I saw a show on TV that stated that the percentage difference of just 1 over the total number of grains in the sand in the world in the force of gravity would have made our universe impossible.
Why? Explain that dynamic. Are you suggesting that free will is not the product of The Creator (that is to say the God of the Judeo-Christian Tradition), but instead is the happenstance of “Random chance” (like Topsey it just growed)? Following your logic to its conclusion, are you then suggesting that the Judeo-Christian God is not at all The Creator, but is rather just another hapless outcome of random “chance” (leaving aside your misapplication of “random”). If the case, then what is the difference from any other tenet of Materialism and your particular POV?
“. . . and for the existence of things in this world which God does not like.”
What would be the significance of “free will” were it not for the existence of “things” which The Creator does not “like”?
Thanks SeekAndFind, for posting this interesting Prager article. Prager is always a fun read. I’ve called mom and boop because of their interest in this subject.
God created free will. The “filthy minds” are the free choice of the “leftists and other lunatics” who have decided wrongly (or so we believe by our own God-given best judgment).
To assign free will to the agency of “randomness” is simply a bassackward way to deny God. It is a surrender to Materialism (which, by the way, denies free will).
Where did this notion of a multiverse first arise? DC Comics trotted out this notion beginning in the 1950s when they rebooted a number of their superheroes comic books and eventually had cameo/guest appearances from the 1930s/1940s incarnations of the characters.
Later as DC’s acquisitions grew, the rolled the other publishers’ characters into parallel worlds.
Then in the 1980s, they smashed them all together with a cataclysmic 12-issue storyline.
Does such “science” come from comic book lore or were others dreaming along these lines before the 1950s?
The multiverse has roots going back about 1,000 years. It was an early explanation of where gods go when they are not here. As I recall the current thinking grew out of the “steady universe” theory from 1948.
I am too lazy to look it up but I am sure it is out there on bing.
I see it as an acknowledgement from both sides of the issue that something bigger than any of us laid down a plan which is why we exist. The discussion is about whether it's a God or a superior alien being. Both could be true.
What gets my head spinning is why there's something instead of nothing.
Could be.......
You don’t know?
You seemed fairly certain when you opined, “There has to be some intermediate randomness to allow for the existence of free will.” Likewise, you must have had a reasonably clear idea in your head when you opined, “If God directly created leftists and other lunatics and their filthy minds then can we still call God good?”
Now, at this point you become coy, and profess to have not a thought in your head?
So, when cornered, you hope to escape by devising an argument over the meaning of a term, permitting you to avoid the embarrassment of having to speak to an issue with which you are unprepared to deal?
Get back to me when you can recall what matter so excited your disdain and animosity for the term in the first place.
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