Posted on 06/07/2013 2:33:44 PM PDT by NYer
Repost, since other one came out funky:
“While it is true that no one seeks after God and no one can come to Him unless God draws him, I don’t see where, in this passage, it says that if God draws someone, it will guarantee their choosing Him.”
Why is the “and he said” colored blue in your quote? The ‘Therefore” is the explanation for the “some of you that believe not.” It’s not a separate strain of thought.
But as to the question:
Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
Or here:
Joh 10:25-30 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father’s name, they bear witness of me. (26) But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. (27) My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: (28) And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. (29) My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand. (30) I and my Father are one.
“God desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth (1 Timothy 2:4)
Barnes commentary on 1 Timothy 2:4
“That is, it is in accordance with his nature, his feelings, his desires. The word “will” cannot be taken here in the absolute sense, denoting a decree like that by which he willed the creation of the world, for then it would certainly be done. But the word is often used to denote a desire, wish, or what is in accordance with the nature of anyone. Thus it may be said of God that he “wills” that his creatures may be happy - because it is in accordance with his nature, and because he has made abundant provision for their happiness - though it is not true that he wills it in the sense that he exerts his absolute power to make them happy. God wills that sickness should be relieved, and sorrow mitigated, and that the oppressed should go free, because it is agreeable to his nature; though it is not true that he wills it in the sense that he exerts his absolute power to produce it. A parent wills the welfare of his child. It is in accordance with his nature, his feelings, his desires; and he makes every needful arrangement for it. If the child is not virtuous and happy, it is his own fault. So God wills that all people should be saved. It would be in accordance with his benevolent nature. He has made ample provision for it. He uses all proper means to secure their salvation. He uses no positive means to prevent it, and if they are not saved it will be their own fault. For places in the New Testament where the word here translated “will” (thelo), means to desire or wish, see Luk_8:20; Luk_23:8; Joh_16:19; Gal_4:20; Mar_7:24; 1Co_7:7; 1Co_11:3; 1Co_14:5; Mat_15:28.”
You should not confuse God’s decree of election with His desire to end all suffering or to save the entire world. That a man is not brought to believe does not take away his guilt for not believing. He is condemned for his own sins, for his own refusal. He loves the world, but He does not pray for the whole world. Only for those given to Him out of the world:
Joh 17:6-10 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. (7) Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. (8) For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me. (9) I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. (10) And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
He does not predestinate those who believe. Rather, he foreknows and predestinates them so that they should believe.
Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
He did not choose the willing, or those who are running, but rather those who did not seek Him and did not run at all.
Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Joh_15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
I have no way of knowing I didn't already.
Does Calvin preclude paragraphs? Ouch!
CynicalBear wrote:
Even the RCC itself says they have incorporated pagan practices into their “religion”.
Really? Like what?
(Isaiah 6:5) Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts.
Your Actual Catapult Varies Per Target???
What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?
Pharisees were well educated and well spoken too and yet Jesus chose to use the unschooled fishermen.
Benefit of the doubt? REALLY?
Then we would also have to give 'the benefit of the doubt' to the Mormons, and Islam, and every other aberration that chooses to knowingly trample the Word of Yahweh underfoot for the benefit of their clergy and tradition...
Volvos are not scriptural, Hondas and Plymouths are.
And the decorations on the Ark, and later around the temple were in direct defiance to Gods orders.... is that your claim. None of those were used in worship either. Nice try.
It is a much more polite response than his comment warranted.
Is there something about the "ordination" of women against biblical teaching that is hard for you to understand. Call them VooDoo Queens of New Orleans for all I care it is a pagan practice. If you don't like being called on it that is just to bad.
Not at all I simple give them the benefit of the doubt that they are following what God has commanded.
Based on what one can observe from the outside only, I often see things that indeed look like worship. Is it? I leave it to God.
You don't have to; They are not Catholic, they are Catholics in name only since they are violating Church teaching. They are either pagan or protestant, in some cases both (Snake handlers, Priestesses or VooDoo Queens of New Orleans, That's for you met mom.)
That is your story and you are going to stick to it? Tell me what cave back in the middle of what woods do you live in? /SARC
Can you cite examples of Catholics in this Forum excuses abuses happening in our Church. We are the first to condemn it.
Because it's not words Jesus spoke.
I post Scripture in blue and what Jesus said in red.
He does not predestinate those who believe. Rather, he foreknows and predestinates them so that they should believe.
Well, some Calvinists believe that.
The way I read the verse is that God foreknows who would accept His gift of salvation given the chance and then instead of sending them to hell for their sin as they still really do deserve. He decided to take them to heaven, so they those who believe are predestined for heaven.
It's a slightly different reading than usual but I don't see it in conflict with any other Scripture.
Yet
Another
Catholic
Versus
PROTESTant
Thread
?
“Religious art was to the illiterate what Scripture is to the literate.
Therefore...
Scripture is to the literate as EXTRA-biblcal teachings are to the BLANK.
(You fill it in.)
Nah... just ignorant.
How could we 'disobey' something we have no 'knowledge' of?
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