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1 posted on 06/01/2013 1:36:03 PM PDT by NYer
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To: netmilsmom; thefrankbaum; Tax-chick; GregB; saradippity; Berlin_Freeper; Litany; SumProVita; ...

2 posted on 06/01/2013 1:37:07 PM PDT by NYer ( "Run from places of sin as from the plague."--St John Climacus)
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To: NYer

Just a simple point to ponder:

If the bread were really the flesh of Christ, and a person with a severe gluten intolerance could not consume it without harmful effects, does that mean that the “flesh”-based access to the divine is forbidden to him?

Assume that this person lived in the 1400s when modern technology didn’t exist to allow for gluten-free bread.


3 posted on 06/01/2013 1:49:10 PM PDT by James C. Bennett (An Australian.)
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To: NYer
Specious, reasoning. Your whole argument hinges on the false premise that the communion wafer must either be the actual body of Christ or an act of idol worship. Conveniently falling to explain why communion could not simply be an act of symbolism. Kind of ironic for a religion full of symbolism.
15 posted on 06/01/2013 2:45:30 PM PDT by NavVet ("You Lie!")
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To: NYer

Can’t help but recall Flannery O’Connor here—

“I was once, five or six years ago, taken by some friends to have dinner with Mary McCarthy and her husband, Mr. Broadwater. . . . She departed the Church at the age of 15 and is a Big Intellectual. We went at eight and at one, I hadn’t opened my mouth once, there being nothing for me in such company to say. The people who took me were Robert Lowell and his now wife, Elizabeth Hardwick. Having me there was like having a dog present who had been trained to say a few words but overcome with inadequacy had forgotten them.

Well, toward morning the conversation turned on the Eucharist, which I, being the Catholic, was obviously supposed to defend. [Mary McCarthy] said when she was a child and received the Host, she thought of it as the Holy Ghost, He being the ‘most portable’ person of the Trinity; now she thought of it as a symbol and implied that it was a pretty good one. I then said, in a very shaky voice, ‘Well, if it’s a symbol, to hell with it.’ That was all the defense I was capable of but I realize now that this is all I will ever be able to say about it, outside of a story, except that it is the center of existence for me; all the rest of life is expendable.”

Rather than adopting this (some might say TOO) succinct approach, the American Catholic Church shortly after Vatican II started floating the idea of “anamnesis,” a really, really, REALLY meaningful symbol, so meaningful that it almost became other than symbolic. It didn’t fly. And it never will.


16 posted on 06/01/2013 2:53:58 PM PDT by Mach9
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To: NYer
If the bread and wine remained unchanged, Christ would be, at best, equal to Melchizedek.

At best? At best?

Jesus is being compared 'at best' to a man referenced nearly a handful of times in the book that lives and breathes testimony to His life - IF Jesus didn't actually share His body and blood BEFORE He made the actual sacrifice?

19 posted on 06/01/2013 2:58:24 PM PDT by LearnsFromMistakes (Yes, I am happy to see you. But that IS a gun in my pocket.)
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To: NYer; HoosierDammit; TYVets; red irish; fastrock; NorthernCrunchyCon; UMCRevMom@aol.com; Finatic; ..

“Jesus said to them again, ‘Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.’ And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.’ “


26 posted on 06/01/2013 4:07:04 PM PDT by narses
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To: NYer

“If the bread and wine remained unchanged, Christ would be, at best, equal to Melchizedek. ..”

Not so. Christ gave his life as a sacrifice. Melchizedech did not.


33 posted on 06/01/2013 4:37:54 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion (Gone rogue, gone Galt, gone international, gone independent. Gone.)
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To: NYer

Author Flannery O’Conner summed it up when she said “If it is only a symbol, to hell with it”. You either believe what Jesus said or you satisfy yourself with something less.


57 posted on 06/02/2013 9:48:02 AM PDT by ex-snook (God is Love)
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To: NYer; All

June 2, 2013

The Solemnity of the Most Holy Body and Blood of Christ

Reading 1 Gn 14:18-20

In those days, Melchizedek, king of Salem, brought out bread and wine,
and being a priest of God Most High,
he blessed Abram with these words:
“Blessed be Abram by God Most High,
the creator of heaven and earth;
and blessed be God Most High,
who delivered your foes into your hand.”
Then Abram gave him a tenth of everything.
Responsorial Psalm Ps 110:1, 2, 3, 4

R. (4b) You are a priest for ever, in the line of Melchizedek.
The LORD said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand
till I make your enemies your footstool.”
R. You are a priest for ever, in the line of Melchizedek.
The scepter of your power the LORD will stretch forth from Zion:
“Rule in the midst of your enemies.”
R. You are a priest for ever, in the line of Melchizedek.
“Yours is princely power in the day of your birth, in holy splendor;
before the daystar, like the dew, I have begotten you.”
R. You are a priest for ever, in the line of Melchizedek.
The LORD has sworn, and he will not repent:
“You are a priest forever, according to the order of Melchizedek.”
R. You are a priest for ever, in the line of Melchizedek.
Reading 2 1 Cor 11:23-26

Brothers and sisters:
I received from the Lord what I also handed on to you,
that the Lord Jesus, on the night he was handed over,
took bread, and, after he had given thanks,
broke it and said, “This is my body that is for you.
Do this in remembrance of me.”
In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying,
“This cup is the new covenant in my blood.
Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.”
For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup,
you proclaim the death of the Lord until he comes.
Gospel Lk 9:11b-17

Jesus spoke to the crowds about the kingdom of God,
and he healed those who needed to be cured.
As the day was drawing to a close,
the Twelve approached him and said,
“Dismiss the crowd
so that they can go to the surrounding villages and farms
and find lodging and provisions;
for we are in a deserted place here.”
He said to them, “Give them some food yourselves.”
They replied, “Five loaves and two fish are all we have,
unless we ourselves go and buy food for all these people.”
Now the men there numbered about five thousand.
Then he said to his disciples,
“Have them sit down in groups of about fifty.”
They did so and made them all sit down.
Then taking the five loaves and the two fish,
and looking up to heaven,
he said the blessing over them, broke them,
and gave them to the disciples to set before the crowd.
They all ate and were satisfied.
And when the leftover fragments were picked up,
they filled twelve wicker baskets.


59 posted on 06/02/2013 11:20:05 AM PDT by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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