Posted on 05/31/2013 2:44:05 PM PDT by NYer
Do our Catholic children and most adults know what these images teach?
All of us know one of the elephants in the room of the Catholic Church. Our religious education programs are not handing on the essence of our Catholic Faith, our parents are befuddled about their role in handing on the faith and the materials we use are vapid or if good do not make an impression on young minds. We are afraid of asking for memorization and thus most don't remember anything they've learned about God and Church other than some niceties and feel good emotions.
I teach each class of our grades 1-6 (we don't have 7th or 8th) each Thursday, rotating classes from week to week. For the last two years I have used Baltimore Catechism #1 as my text book. It is wonderful to use with children and it is so simple yet has so much content. If Catholics, all Catholics, simply studied Baltimore Catechism #1, we would have very knowledgeable Catholics.
These past two years I've used Baltimore Catechism #2 with our adult religious program which we call Coffee and Conversation following our 9:30 AM Sunday Mass, which coincides with our CCD program which we call PREP (Parish Religious Education Program).
This #2 book has more content and is for middle school, but upper elementary school children must have been more capable of more serious content back when this book was formulated and used through the mid 1960's because it is a great book to use with adults and not childish at all. We all use this same book as a supplemental book for the RCIA because it is so clear, nobly simple and chocked full of content!
Yes, there are some adjustments that need to be made to some chapters, but not that many, in light of Vatican II and the new emphasis we have on certain aspects of Church that are not present in the Baltimore Catechism. But these are really minor.
What is more important though is that when the Baltimore Catechism was used through the mid 1960's it was basically the only book that was used for children in elementary and junior high school. It was used across the board in the USA thus uniting all Catholics in learning the same content. There was not, in other words, a cottage industry of competing publishing houses selling new books and different content each year.
The same thing has occurred with liturgical music, a cottage industry of big bucks has developed around the sale of new hymnals, missalettes and new music put on the open market for parishes to purchase. It is a money making scheme.
Why do our bishop allow this to happen in both liturgical music and parish catechesis? The business of selling stuff to parishes and making mega bucks off of it is a scandal that has not be addressed.
In the meantime, our liturgies suffer and become fragmented because every parish uses a different resource for liturgical music and the same is true of religious formation, everyone uses something different of differing quality or no quality at all.
Isn't it time to wake up and move forward with tried and true practices that were tossed out in favor of a consumerist's approach to our faith that has weakened our liturgies, our parishes and our individual Catholics?
There is no Church in the bible...There is however a church, and many churches...
The Berean church in the scriptures gave us the example...The churches are supposedly led by faithful Christians who study and search the scriptures by comparing scripture with scripture to 'prove all things' and that is where their authority to settle the matter lies...
The first thing Gabriel said to Mary was that she was “full of grace”. All generations shall call her blessed.
So when the Catholic church says that the honor Mary, does that mean that they worship Mary?
And what do you make of that? That she is worthy of worship? NO. She was filled with Grace by the Holy Spirit because of her task. She was given the strength and guidance to help her. Before that she was a normal woman. A virgin and humble but sinful in nature just like we all are born to be.
“There is no Church in the bible...There is however a church, and many churches”
Ekklesia. Singular. There is one Church and many congregations.
“and that is where their authority to settle the matter lies”
Actually the authority of the Church stems from Christ himself. The bible is a product of the Church not the Church of the bible.
“A virgin and humble but sinful in nature just like we all are born to be.”
Where does scripture say this?
Rather than go by what they say, go by what they do. Worship belongs to God alone. We are to pray to God. Why pray to Mary? Is God deaf? Does He need some persuasion? What was the example Jesus gave us in prayer? He prayed to God.
It is all throughout the Bible of the sinful nature of man. We are born into sin. You know this but use earplugs and blinders when it comes to Mary. All have sinned and come short of the Glory of God.
By what mechanism was Mary born sinless if her own mother was subject to sin?
Says you. Why argue over this? You will never change your mind and I will never change mine. Have a good day. I have to re-read the transcript of Gordon Gee (OSU president).
Except Mary. God preserved her from original sin. The angel Gabriel said so. It’s in the Bible.
‘Rather than go by what they say’
Your brother in faith claimed that the Catholic church was merely ‘substituting a word for worship’.
Are you conceding this is in fact not the case?
“Why pray to Mary?”
We don’t pray to Mary. The Rosary asks Mary to pray for us.
“Is God deaf? Does He need some persuasion? What was the example Jesus gave us in prayer? He prayed to God.”
James says that the prayer of a righteous man is powerful and that we are to pray for one another.
“It is all throughout the Bible of the sinful nature of man. We are born into sin.”
So there is no direct reference to Mary having sinned.
Why, then, do you believe this is so?
Nobody questions that David is a sinner - because his sins are documented. Why is Mary’s sin not documented?
Chapter and verse?
By the Immaculate Conception. With God, all things are possible.
Luke 1:28. That’s what Gabriel means when he says “full of grace”.
She referred to Jesus as her Savior. That is direct evidence. No need of salvation if one hasn't sinned.
So, Mary could be conceived sinless of a sinner mother, but Jesus could not?
Now you're going all Dan Brown on me with this. I'm supposed to prove a negative. No thanks. Lots of people in the Bible do not have their sins documented. Proves nothing. The burden of proof is on YOU.
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