Posted on 05/27/2013 7:43:17 AM PDT by DaveMSmith
When the pope speaks “ex cathedral” it is to settle a matter of faith. That is the case when he is infallable. In other cases, he is a man liable to error and sin, like the rest of us.
As St. Paul wrote God desires that all accept His grace. It's also a fact that many exercise free will and reject that grace.
"I desire therefore, first of all, that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men: For kings, and for all that are in high station: that we may lead a quiet and a peaceable life in all piety and chastity. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour, Who will have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth." 1 Timothy 2:1-4
How does what the Pope said not comport with the following?
"For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but the doers of the law who will be justified. When Gentiles, who do not possess the law, do instinctively what the law requires, these, though not having the law, are a law to themselves. They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, to which their own conscience also bears witness; and their conflicting thoughts will accuse or perhaps excuse them on the day when, according to my gospel, God, through Jesus Christ, will judge the secret thoughts of all." - Romans 2: 13-16
Peace be with you.
Certainly does...For a mere Vatican official having to correct the Vicar of Christ, God's man on Earth over a doctrinal issue is a huge blunder...Maybe the smarter Catholics will finally wake up...
A pity your pope never mentioned that to the atheists and muzlims he addressed in his message...But they probably knew that anyway, right???
All true.
I wasn’t questioning the Pope’s fallibility, I was questioning the fallibility of the MEDIA.
The Vatican was correcting the media and the ignorant in the population who see things the way you do.
Pacem
"For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but the doers of the law who will be justified. When Gentiles, who do not possess the law, do instinctively what the law requires, these, though not having the law, are a law to themselves. They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, to which their own conscience also bears witness; and their conflicting thoughts will accuse or perhaps excuse them on the day when, according to my gospel, God, through Jesus Christ, will judge the secret thoughts of all." - Romans 2: 13-16
Does the bible you borrowed have a Romans, chapter 3??? Read that and then get back to us...
Those who do not accept Christ cannot be saved by His blood. The Pope is saying, "Atheists, do good and avoid evil! Approach the Source of Good, approach Christ and be saved."
What way would be better?
"Hey, atheists! Jesus hates you, and we do, too"?
I never did understand sado-evangelism.
But we were told, by several FRoman Catholics, the pope really didn’t say that!
All of the Bibles I own are complete. The include even the books you have ripped out. My Romans 3 establishes the foundation as to why Gentiles ought to know Jesus, but reaffirms that God is indeed the God of the Gentiles as well as the Jews.
Peace be with you
Salvation is through CHRIST, not through baptism, denominations, moral living, Christian community, whatever.
It's an individual decision that each of us must make for ourselves.
When we do that we become part of the body of Christ which exists throughout time and space.
Paul addressed denominationalism in the first chapter of 1 Corinthians.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%201&version=ESV
So in a nutshell, if one doesn't agree with the Catholic church in everything, they are going to hell.
Then that person isn't saved after all.
This idea that one can be saved and still go to hell is ridiculous.
What if someone chooses to believe God over the Catholic church? No heaven for them, eh?
“The ignorance of the Pope’s “handlers” - sigh”
Outside of Jesus Christ, there is no salvation. Either you are a member of the elect, or you are a member of the damned. Being a member of the RCC is the only thing not really required.
“I am more convinced that many in the ‘Vatican’ will burn in hell, than I am that ‘atheists’ (I wonder which type of atheist they meant?) will.”
You’re convinced by your own delusions. It is the scripture which convinces me:
Joh_3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
“Many atheists were baptized. In fact, in the overall scheme of life, most people were Baptized. So I think it will be very crowed in Heaven according to you.”
Good luck with that. You can tell God while you’re burning in hell that being baptized overruled the requirement of being a Spirit-filled believer.
Joh_3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Salvation is by grace, through faith, and not the working of ritual or good works.
Eph 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: (9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.
True. Fr. Rosica was attempting to clarify the Pope’s comments, not correcting him. Unfortunately, Fr. Rosica lost a lot of credibility with me when he referred to “so-called “ original sin.
It’s great that Fr. Rosica explained the difference between redemption and salvation according to Catholic teaching, but it would have made much more sense if the Pope did what would be the most natural thing to do which would be to include a reference to salvation when mentioning redemption. Those two go hand in hand. But he did not. Why?
And nowhere in the official “clarification” did he explain why the Pope called atheists “first class Children of God” when Catholic Teaching states that Baptism makes us Children of God. For me, that’s the bigger issue in all that he said.
Can we have a clarification of the clarification? LOL
Because every baptism incorporates someone into the Catholic Church (even if they don’t realize it). It’s what happens after that that separate us.
“Unless you are baptized of water and the spirit, you will not enter the Kingdom of God.”
Do you know if Pope Pius said that infallibly? Because whenever I hear about “invincible ignorance” it seems it is always referenced to this quote (and no other Church teaching).
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