Posted on 05/27/2013 7:43:17 AM PDT by DaveMSmith
The Vatican has just announced that, despite what Pope Francis said in his homily earlier this week, atheists are still going to hell.
What a relief. For a brief moment there it was possible to imagine a brave new world of compassion, generosity and acceptance, not qualities we have come to associate with the Holy See.
Said Pope Francis this week: 'The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! ‘Father, the atheists?’ Even the atheists. Everyone!'
That seemed like a pretty clear admission that people of other faiths and none have intrinsic worth to God and will be saved alongside the faithful. But this turned out to be wishful thinking.
Although they are otherwise good, moral people they are still doomed to burn in a lake of fire for having the temerity to have been born outside of Catholicism or having chosen to remain so.
The Rev. Thomas Rosica, a Vatican spokesman, spelled it out for the world on Thursday. People who know about the Catholic church 'cannot be saved' if they 'refuse to enter her or remain in her,' he said.
So that's one tall order of eternal hellfire for the rest of us, then.
It makes for an interesting spectacle to see the infallible pope being corrected by his handlers, doesn't it? For a moment it was possible to recall the welcoming and indulgent style of the short lived Pope John Paul I in the unexpectedly all-embracing words of Pope Francis. But you'll recall how quickly John Paul I was replaced by the much more doctrinaire John Paul II.
(Excerpt) Read more at irishcentral.com ...
Yes, this is true and why is it true? Because the path the “chosen” are to walk is troublesome and there are few who find it. One can not just quote Mt 22:14 without taking into context its sister passages of Mt 7,
Mt 7:13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it. 15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.
Dt 13:1 “If there arises among you a prophet or a dreamer of dreams, and he gives you a sign or a wonder, 2 and the sign or the wonder comes to pass, of which he spoke to you, saying, ‘Let us go after other gods’—which you have not known—’and let us serve them,’ 3 you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams, for the Yahweh your God is testing you to know whether you love the Yahweh your God with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 You shall walk after the Yahweh your God and fear Him, and keep His commandments and obey His voice; you shall serve Him and hold fast to Him.
And this is the greatest command, that we love the LORD our God with all our heart & soul (Mt 22:37-38) and we do this by obeying the voice, the Word of God. (1Jn5:3) If Yeshua taught anything different, then He would have been teaching against Himself as He is the Living Word of God and of course we know this is ludicrous, He never spoke a word against the Father, but upheld every word of the Father that was given to Him to speak to mankind since the foundation of the world and the creation of mankind. Dt 13 is the test given to every prophet to know whether or not they are a prophet of God. If a prophet (preacher) does not speak according to Moses, that prophet (preacher) speaks falsehood of which there will be none found in the kingdoms to come, Yeshua’a Millennial reign and then the eternal kingdom of the Father that comes down once Yeshua has put all under His feet.
So if you are claiming that Paul spoke against Moses, then Paul is a heretic, a false prophet and I am going to assume that is not what you meant, to call Paul a false prophet.
2Pet3:16 as also in all his (Paul's) letters, speaking in them concerning these matters, in which some are hard to understand, which those who are untaught and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do also the other Scriptures. 17 You, then, beloved ones, being forewarned, watch, lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the delusion of the lawless,
1Cor 1:11 “Imitate me as I imitate Messiah” (see 1Pet2:21-22)
They’re both right. Anyone who is saved, is saved by Christ’s redemptive death. But not everyone who is redeemed is saved. We can turn our backs on Christ.
Those who know that the Catholic Church is Christ’s Church, yet refuse to enter it, will be damned. However, it is possible for those who are ignorant of Christ’s Church to be saved, if their ignorance is not their fault.
Thus it is possible for atheists to be saved —and by Christ’s redemptive death.
Even apart from your deliberately insulting spelling of the word Muslim, your reply suggests a good-sized helping of culpable ignorance.
The Pope said these words as part of a sermon at a private Mass inside the Vatican.
1. Do you have any evidence that anyone in attendance at that Mass was Muslim or atheist?
2. More importantly, since there is no full text of the sermon, and I’m guessing you were not in attendance, do you have any evidence that he “never mentioned that” (whatever “that” is) in the sermon?
You show a remarkable ability to just assume that everything the press reports is the truth and the full truth, and if they didn’t report it, well then, that proves he didn’t say it. If you need a new career, I suggest you consider applying for a job in the MSM. You have all the right qualifications.
For the others, i.e. for those who do not go out of their way to deliberately misunderstand whatever the Pope says, I offer this excellent article on the topic:
“And this is the greatest command, that we love the LORD our God with all our heart & soul (Mt 22:37-38) and we do this by obeying the voice, the Word of God. (1Jn5:3) If Yeshua taught anything different, then He would have been teaching against Himself as He is the Living Word of God and of course we know this is ludicrous, He never spoke a word against the Father, but upheld every word of the Father that was given to Him to speak to mankind since the foundation of the world and the creation of mankind.”
There is no disagreement here. In many places in the scripture, God commands us to obey, and to have for ourselves a circumcised heart that does not disobey. Yet, at the same time, the scripture teaches that it is God who will give to us that new heart in the first place:
Eze_36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
It is God by whom our works are wrought in the first place:
Isa_26:12 LORD, thou wilt ordain peace for us: for thou also hast wrought all our works in us.
It is God who gives to us the heart, working in us both to will and to do (it is not of ourselves):
Php 2:12-13 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. (13) For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
It is God who starts a work in us, and sees it through to completion:
Php_1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
There is no vain seeking after works in order to be chosen. We are chosen so that we produce fruit in the first place. All obedience, works, and faith, is the direct product of the working of God who takes away our stony hearts and gives to us a new heart that is truly alive, born again through the regenerating power of the Holy Spirit, predestinated before the world began.
If Paul is a heretic for preaching such a thing, then so are all the Apostles, even John the Baptist was in on the conspiracy!
Joh_3:27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.
Neither. He didn’t teach anything false and he didn’t teach falsely. All that has happened is that people have not actually paid attention to what he said or to the teaching he was referring to. Stupid people do that. Try not to be one of them. All it takes is a little effort.
Amen! And thus we are in the process of transition from being what we were to being molded into the likeness of His Son who is the likeness of the Father. The Father is the potter and we are the clay, so let us not forget that producing the fruit through the vine which is Yeshua Messiah is but a part of the process because the conclusion of the “new” covenant states,
Eze36:27 27 and put My Spirit within you. And I shall cause you to walk in My laws and guard My right-rulings and shall do them.
Eze37:24 ... And they shall all have one shepherd and walk in My right-rulings and guard My laws, and shall do them.
Jer31:34 “And no longer shall they teach, each one his neighbor, and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know Yahweh,’ for they shall all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares Yahweh. “For I shall forgive their crookedness, and remember their sin no more.” (see Heb8:11)
Can you back that claim up with Scripture? Are you saying anyone who is not Catholic is an atheist? It sure would be nice to see Scripture for that claim also.
I found this:
http://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/outside_the_church.htm
It appears that Pius IX is the first to mention invincible ignorance in two places: in an encyclical and in an allocution (both of which are not necessarily infallible). According to EWTN (not sure how accurate they are), it looks like it didn’t become formalized teaching until Vatican II. I do find it curious that there is no mention of this teaching until Pius IX.
Does it make sense that ultimately God will decide? Sure. But I can’t help wondering why there is no record of any Pope teaching this before then. The only comments out there from infallible documents is that there are no exceptions made to those outside the Church.
So it took 1800+ years for the Holy Spirit to clear that up? Does.not.compute.
I do wish Catholics would stop speaking out of both sides of their mouths.
Non-Catholics are saved except when they're not.
Salvation is through Jesus except you better be in fellowship with the RCC.
Which is it? Can you guys make up your minds?
I insulted muzlims??? I hope the Izlamaniacs don't get angry and cut off my head...
The report on your pope came from the Vatican...So we can't believe them either eh??? And the people who corrected your vicar are cardinals...Can't believe them either, eh???
insulting spelling?
laughable concept. Should we spell it in arabic only?
Muzzies don’t deserve the effort.
I'd say that number is about zero so the statement is meaningless...
translation: not giving money to church means no paradise.
Another Catholic offended because I insulted their sister institution???
I am not Catholic or offended. If the Vatican is correcting the Pope on such a basic matter, isn’t that some indicative of some type of problem?
No such thing as an atheist - just secular humanists and agnostics.
Those who know that the “catholic” church is Mystery Babylon, and refuse Yehova’s command to “come out of her” will definitely be damned.
Oh boy, you’ve done it now.
Did you mean Moslum?
Or some other kind of satan worshiper?
He needed fair warning.
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