Posted on 05/25/2013 4:22:36 AM PDT by NYer
I’m sure you’ve heard the phrase “beating a dead horse.” It refers to something that has been said or done so many times that it has outlived its usefulness. This is especially true of arguments that are not only old but also untrue.
Like the proverbial horse, the Roman emperor Constantine has been beaten to death by anti-Catholics.
I make it a point to check all of the comments posted on our YouTube and Facebook pages at least twice a day. As sure as fish live in water, I have come to expect at least one message a day from a Christian Fundamentalist about how the Catholic Church was founded by Emperor Constantine sometime in the fourth century.
It’s almost unfathomable to me that in this day and age Fundamentalists still have not learned to verify the validity of their anti-Catholic arguments. But then again, with so many websites making claims like “Constantine founded the Catholic Church” living on in cyberspace, it’s no wonder some folks still cling to what blogger Mark Shea refers to as “pseudo knowledge.”
It would be nice if this falsity were confined to Fundamentalist circles, but sadly it is not. As atheist podcast host and blogger David Smalley explains on his website:
The Bible was 'canonized' around 325 C.E. (about 275+ years after Jesus' death) with Constantine in charge. . . . At the time Constantine was overseeing the canonization or 'building' of the Bible, if he didn't agree with the text, it was thrown out. There are tons of 'scriptures' that did not make it in. A quick research on the Council of Nicaea will prove this.
There’s no doubt that Constantine was favorable to Christianity. Still, many people mistakenly believe that he not only favored it but that he made it the state religion. He did not. He signed the Edict of Milan, which made it legal to practice Christianity and ordered that the Christians’ confiscated property be returned to them.
Another mistaken notion is that Constantine exercised complete control over the First Council of Nicaea in 325. The primary reason for the council was due to the growing Arian heresy. Jimmy Akin summarizes Arianism this way:
[Arianism was] founded by Arius, a priest of Alexandria, Egypt, in the early 300s. Arius held that originally the Son of God did not exist. There was a time in which there was a single divine Person who became the Father when he created the Son out of nothing. The Son was the first of all created beings and thus separate from the Father in beginning. The heresy was condemned at the first ecumenical council—Nicaea I in 325—but the controversy intensified and lasted much longer (The Fathers Know Best, p. 85).
Constantine did not fully understand why Arianism was so controversial, and he even endorsed many of Arius’s ideas. Historian Dr. James Hitchcock explains:
[W]hen Constantine also endorsed Arius’s ideas, there was an uproar that led the emperor in 325 to call the Council of Nicaea (Asia Minor) to settle the issue. After an intense struggle, the Council condemned Arius, declaring the Son to be “consubstantial” with the Father, that is, sharing the same substance (History of the Catholic Church, p. 83).
If Constantine held as much sway over the Council as many claim, then it is a peculiar thing that the Christology he favored was the big loser.
The next anti-Catholic claim is summarized in Mr. Smalley’s quote above: It is the idea that Constantine decided which books belonged in the Bible and that the ones he did not favor were left out.
The Council Fathers discussed many things besides Arianism, including the proper dating of Easter, the validity of baptisms administered by heretics, and more. One issue they did not discuss, however, is which books belonged in the Bible. They drafted a list of canons (ecclesiastical laws) that you can read for yourself here.
Mr. Smalley’s assertion that “quick research on the Council of Nicaea” will prove his claim in fact proves otherwise; unless, of course, you are getting your information from anti-Catholic websites that don’t provide any primary sources to back them up.
Finally, there is the claim that Constantine introduced pagan elements into what was “pure” Christianity up to that point. Many Fundamentalists will claim that doctrines like transubstantiation, the communion of saints, or the sacrifice of the Mass were pagan ideas. But all of these teachings and more can be traced back to the time of the Apostles through the writings of the early Christians.
To counter this claim, I highly recommend Jimmy Akin’s book, The Fathers Know Best: Your Essential Guide to the Teachings of the Early Christians, available from Catholic Answers. I also recommend getting a copy of the May-June 2013 issue of Catholic Answers Magazine, in which I tackle several of the supposed pagan parallels to Catholic practices.
Are you a Jew? Peter had to have the revelation of 'who JESUS is' from The Father in heaven and that was before he was spirit filled. And Paul who never met Jesus in the flesh knew Him better - because HE KNEW HIM in the Spirit. 'God is a Spirit and you must worship Him in Spirit'. You can't know Him in the flesh!
And catholics hear THE Truth and reject it, also, because they are kept in the dark by man and chose to remain in the dark. While Christians are spirit filled and His Word/Truth is their Final Authority.
He did this by word and deed, but he wrote nothing.
HE, THE WORD, worked through His chosen writers by His Spirit. It's supernatural- so you cannot understand it because catholics have chosen to be part of a worldly church.
but he wrote nothing
Yet, He spoke the universe into existence. I guess you don't believe that either. catholics apparently serve an itty bitty god.
Our disagreement is over WHO the Church is.
NO!!! It starts with Who GOD IS!! You start out wrong you get everything else wrong which includes your destiny.
You say it is those who accept principles most definitelu laid down by Luther.
Show me where I even mentioned Luther. Is this your mo - putting your words, thoughts and focus - onto another? I don't follow man, you do. I follow GOD. Stay focused.
I say that these principles do not accord with the Truth.
HOW would you know what accords with the Truth?? ONLY GOD is Truth and HIS WORD is not your final authority - MAN'S is!
From now on for you to see things clearer - post 'man truth's' when they are 'of man' and then 'God Truth's' when they are 'of God'. 'Man is not God' - even though satan has lifted man up through catholicsm with 'infallibility'.
No, we are not. The Holy Spirit had not been given as a spiritual guide at that point.
>>We must have someone inspired by the Spirit to show us.<<
We do, and it is those of us who are true Christians who have been indwelt by the Holy Spirit just as the apostles were.
Acts 15:8 And God, who knows the heart, bore witness by granting them the holy Spirit just as he did us. 9 He made no distinction between us and them, for by faith he purified their hearts.
The deceit of the RCC keeps people from realizing the true gift of the indwelling. That’s why Catholics don’t understand when individual Christians can understand scripture without falling for “another gospel” preached by the RCC.
Posting Scripture is not something the offended can do that is lasting - it only takes the sting out of the flesh for a moment when being told to ‘take no offense but be corrected’ which has lasting value.
The mother of all harlots.
Do you honestly believe that God is that weak that He wouldn’t have found another way? Seriously? God uses evil and dishonest people all the time to work His will. Judas would be one example. Catholics trying to take credit for preserving scripture is like Judas taking credit for procuring our salvation.
I think it’s actually referred to as a cult.
Red sky at night, sailor's delight.
Red sky in the morning, sailor take warning.
After you sail around for awhile, you realize it should be:
Red sky in the morning, sailor take warning.
Red sky at night, sailor take warning. Red sky in the afternoon, sailor take warning. Red sky.... ;o)
To be sure, but the ends do not justify the means, while what "well" meant can be quite different than what Scripture teaches. The Pharisees who made souls twofold more the children of Hell than themselves could also claim a right motive.
But i think many a TRC longs for a day when all the powers of the Inquisition and Catholic states against challenge or dissent be used again. All Catholic Answers can do now is ban opposition for life.
I’ll take a cup!
It looks like a drawing from someone’s imagination of perhaps where they grew up and lived where the good life is.
We do coffee every day from here:
We do coffee every day from here:
It looks familiar, I think I've been there more than a few times! ;) That must be the front door.
Ahhhhhh...
Oh?
Then just WHO are the 'dead in Christ' who will rise at the last trump?
LOL...
Now now...
That is a MORMON term.
Remember...
...we PROTESTants get the SAME label applied to us from SLC headquarters:
Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).Joseph Smith: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).Orson Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses , 18:172).President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses , 10:127).James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 2, p.196).
If they would just read it...Anyone can read the bible and understand enough of it to know if they are being lied to...
I haven't figgered out how to post a picture on GoogleEarth.
It can't be too hard, for there are ZILLIONs of them!
What hours?
the truth hurts, there were no protestants and born agains during those times, for the first 1,500 years, the entire Christian world believed in the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus in the Holy Eucharist and exulted Mary, the Mother of God, then came the reformation and it’s been downhill since.
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