Posted on 05/19/2013 12:21:32 PM PDT by HiTech RedNeck
Edited on 05/25/2013 2:44:13 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
"Where were You, God?" The question arises daily as news of tragedies abound, and even from time to time as the tragedy involves ourselves. Servicemen die in a bungled military defense operation that should have been a cake walk, and no government official has credible answers. A son is shot dead in his prime by a wanton criminal. A wife dies decades too soon from a deadly disease. A busy mother dies unexpectedly from a sudden heart attack. Maybe you were emotionally abused when a child and have been saddled with a destructive habit that you acquired in an effort to escape from the torment by the only means you knew, and prayer -- once you realized you were in a trap -- seemed scant help or comfort. In these myriad situations the bitter questions often arise: "Oh Lord, where were You? Dear God, why did You roll over for this? Almighty Father, I've always heard that you are righteous and omnipotent, so why did You not act when it would have been so simple for You to stop it from happening? Oh, the heart-rending woe! Why did You lose, God?"
This is not a modern question, and it was not discovered by modern atheists, agnostics, or freethinkers. It arose many thousands of years ago to a man named Job (pronounced with a long "o") who kept a tender conscience towards God about what he did, and as a result displayed a very upright life, and was blessed with a large, loving family and many earthly riches. And yet without warning this man's world came crashing down upon him. It began with the destruction and theft of his great riches, and was topped by the loss of most of the lives of his dear family. Then, the trouble soon escalated with an inexplicable illness that covered him with sores. His wife, in an apparent hint that God was fickle and undeserving of love, in great disgust told him to curse God and die. His friends, who initially wisely comforted him in silence, then began to lecture him sarcastically about how he must have done something terribly wrong to provoke God's wrath, and his agony grew as a heated argument erupted and Job insisted he had done nothing to deserve the tragedy. Finally a wiser friend suggested that Job look to God's sovereignty, and then God answered Job from a whirlwind, challenging the limitations of Job's knowledge about what God can do. With a deeper appreciation of God's capabilities, Job stopped complaining, and soon God blessed Job twice as much as he had been blessed before.
There is a simple enough answer to the question, at least to the mind: by allowing the world and even our selves to fail so dramatically at times, God highlights His capacity to save, a faith in which we sometimes are sorely lacking, and even if we know it in our heads, our hearts are slower and lag behind that and need to be taught. For God is not merely solving complex intellectual problems. He is solving problems that encompass our entire beings that He has created and bestowed with capabilities that are an image of His own.
I’m following on to the next stage of logic. It’s much like the evolution question, actually... how do you get enough arrival of the fittest to even feed survival of the fittest? And why should the structure of a random world even be suited to channeling the fittest in a, well, fit direction to keep from losing it too?
Trucks say Peterbilt... I say Godbuilt.
And if I slew your son for you murdering they’d count me crazy. This is clever nit picking.
Once more you don’t provide any explanation other than some kind of vague foggy “rebellion” for why changing times would evolve new “rights” instead of extinguishing them or letting them pop up only briefly.
It’s Christianity that brought them. You have your heels dug in to scoffing. And with that, Matt 7:6. Good night.
But its perfectly ok to have as many wives as you want,Its perfectly ok to have sex with youre female slaves,Its perfectly ok to have hundreds of concubines to satisfy youre every sexual desire,,Right METMOM? God blesses that.In fact its also ok to bash the heads of innocent babies with bricks and stones isnt it?To cut open the bellies of pregnant women and destroy thier unborn children isnt it?To send bears to kill children if they make fun of youre prophets bald head isnt it?
All those slaves women,and concubines willingly had sex?Hard to say no when saying no means youre death huh?But that isnt really Rape Rape is it?
I never cared for, nor believed in the devil or dark powers. Only godly wrath. Nowadays, I absolutely believe that evil exists, because I don’t have the innocence of childhood clouding judgement. That’s not to say I believe it’s the way for me, though. I just understand that evil is a very real thing, and people harness it to do some terrible things in different ways.
When I was going to CCD, we were taught the Apostles Creed, and that was Roman Catholic.
There could be a million out there. I think most of our scientists are arrogant, and stupid, to claim with certainty that conditions need to be “just right” for life to form, and what do they consider those conditions to be? Basically a mirror of our planet, and how things happened over billions of years, never taking into account that oxygen could be poisonous to other life. Water could be deadly to other life.
Yes, it is.
Catholics and other Christians share many of the same beliefs.
:-)
You didn't use those exact words, but I got your drift. In this imaginary world you speak of "with no God: Imagine a world where rewards and punishments seem to be handed out in a wheel-of-fortune-like, random manner, where much does not make sense, you can never tell what will happen from day to day, and no one seems to be in charge... see the world for the random, lonely, and ungoverned place it is. Once you get used to seeing it for what it is, learn to make the best of it. There's nothing out there but stars. But at least your thoughts are your own."
Where is any encouragement to continue your life? If someone is in pain - physical, emotional or both - and there is nothing to look forward to BUT perhaps a continuation of that, then why would someone want to go on? ESPECIALLY if one is convinced there is nothing but annihilation afterward? What kind of hope can that provide?
But, here's the thing, there IS something intrinsic in the human psyche that seeks for God. How did it get there? Since the dawn of mankind there has been this acknowledgment of a higher power, a Creator, something, someone bigger than what we see, the "first cause". That's why there ARE so many different religions out there...it is man seeking to "bind himself back to" that someone/something creator. None of the atheists and agnostics out there can explain it.
We don't always know why people suffer, why "good" people suffer and, it seems, the "bad" people never do. This dilemma is not a new thing. King David wrote about it in one of his Psalms, Psalm 73:
But as for me, my feet were almost gone; my steps had well nigh slipped.
For I was envious at the foolish, when I saw the prosperity of the wicked.
For there are no bands in their death: but their strength is firm.
They are not in trouble as other men; neither are they plagued like other men.
Therefore pride compasseth them about as a chain; violence covereth them as a garment.
Their eyes stand out with fatness: they have more than heart could wish.
They are corrupt, and speak wickedly concerning oppression: they speak loftily.
They set their mouth against the heavens, and their tongue walketh through the earth.
Therefore his people return hither: and waters of a full cup are wrung out to them.
And they say, How doth God know? and is there knowledge in the most High?
Behold, these are the ungodly, who prosper in the world; they increase in riches.
Verily I have cleansed my heart in vain, and washed my hands in innocency.
For all the day long have I been plagued, and chastened every morning.
If I say, I will speak thus; behold, I should offend against the generation of thy children.
When I thought to know this, it was too painful for me;
Until I went into the sanctuary of God; then understood I their end.
Surely thou didst set them in slippery places: thou castedst them down into destruction.
How are they brought into desolation, as in a moment! they are utterly consumed with terrors.
As a dream when one awaketh; so, O Lord, when thou awakest, thou shalt despise their image.
Thus my heart was grieved, and I was pricked in my reins.
So foolish was I, and ignorant: I was as a beast before thee.
Nevertheless I am continually with thee: thou hast holden me by my right hand.
Thou shalt guide me with thy counsel, and afterward receive me to glory.
Whom have I in heaven but thee? and there is none upon earth that I desire beside thee.
My flesh and my heart faileth: but God is the strength of my heart, and my portion for ever.
For, lo, they that are far from thee shall perish: thou hast destroyed all them that go a whoring from thee.
But it is good for me to draw near to God: I have put my trust in the Lord God, that I may declare all thy works.
Our physical bodies WILL go back to "biomass" but our souls are eternal. Our Creator loves us and has provided a way so that we can be with him for eternity. When we receive Jesus Christ, which is believing in Him to be our Savior, accepting the free gift of God offered to us by his grace through faith, we WILL be with him in heaven. One day, we will be given a new, glorified body to inhabit and it will never be sick or grow old or die. I will gladly endure this life of pain knowing that eternity with my God is my future.
I understood this precious truth when I read John 10:27-30, Jesus said:
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one.
I sincerely will be praying for you, FRiend.
You may use all the 'other words' you like, but do not attribute them to me - Your atheism seems to have affected your translating ability.
[...] if wastedyears isn't feeling peace and joy right now, he has failed to seek God with an open enough heart. That's all you Christians on here are really saying to him.
If you had any idea how precious an 'open heart' is, and how hard it is to achieve, I doubt you would treat it so blithely. Being in a state where it is not achieved is not an accusation as much as it is a symptom.
God is peace, but you have to do it right.
Well of course you have to 'do it right' to some degree. YHWH doesn't answer the phones at Baal's office (as an instance)... But YHWH will meet you where you are in a general sense.
You have to pray hard enough, believe deeply enough, abandon self, trust, believe, beg... If you aren't feeling the peace, you're doing it wrong, see?
No, I don't see.
So you're doubling the blame for his misery back onto him. That's 100 times more destructive than anything I'm saying to him. Poisonous, actually.
I am not blaming him in the least. What is poisonous is bitterness, hate, self pity and anger - All of which are symptomatic and expected when one is in duress. And all of which tend to short-wire the transmission to God. The radio has to be working in order to transmit. It is really, really hard to trust God in such circumstances - And all to easy to trust one's self or rely upon doctors. But YHWH is the one who holds your blueprint... When the doctors put you into maintenance mode, healing will be found there no longer. So hope resides in God alone (which was the only hope all along anyway).
And the most poisonous of all is telling him to crawl into a bitter pity-party and continue to rely on what hasn't worked: YOU'RE DOOOOMED! Live with it! Don't listen to these hayseed pasty-faced Christians (who actually DO get healing). Don't listen for a minute to how they got that way!
If there was ever a thought directly from satan's lips, it would be that.
There is a free market for good or evil here on Earth and if it were not so, we would be like animals and not free to love or not love Him and His creation. Don’t you realize that there is a great and wonderful place in the other side for innocents whose lives are taken here? And do you see that most all diseases are spiritual in nature and have unforgiveness as their root? That is a fact. People live in denial and then tend to blame God. The fhu.com has the simple path of love that will cause us to be patient not matter what the temptations in life, then we will see the truth of love.
You have a point about unforgiveness resulting in a lot of heartache; yet it seems to me that Christians with the deepest, cleanest sincere faith don’t get significantly less colds or flus than atheists do. Still, it bothers them less because they are living in a generous stream of grace. Also forgiveness presupposes grace to forgive. When one is all hung up on oneself or the world, there isn’t much if any of that.
Christianity is hard for unbelievers to swallow. That’s not news... anyhow looks like our RM decided that the jag of unbelief (I was trying to present truth in love, but only got question begging and quibbles) had gone far enough for the Lady. I wish the Lady the best, but she needs her spiritual eyes opened before she can accept it. She, like me at one point except even worse, is tied to the present world as with boat chains and belittles the rest of us for not sharing that earth tied view.
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