**This distortion of John 14 has already been corrected. You’ve not responded to it even once, though you’ve told me everything else many times before.“At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.” John 14:20**
Distortion....everything else?...You are interpretting John 14 to fit your ‘unity only theory’, when the Christ is explaining that the Father is in literally in him, doing the works. He expressed surprise that Philip still hadn’t realized that. He further explain that those that receive the Spirit of God will have the same dual nature as him: a human being filled with Spirit....”..and greater works shall he do; because I go unto the Father”. (remember, he had to go away before the Comforter would come)
The words “AT THAT DAY” expressly tell us that we will be like him, when filled with the Spirit, BECAUSE.....”For as many as are led by the Spirit of God (not ‘God the Spirit’), they are the sons of God. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, AND JOINT-HEIRS WITH CHRIST......”. Rom. 8:14-17
The Son was appointed heir of all things (Heb 1:2). How can he be ‘appointed heir’ to something that was already his, according to your belief system?
**You’ve not responded to it even once, though you’ve told me everything else many times before.**
Post 674 was the first of several; they just don’t fit your theology
:
He started out explaining how he is the Father’s express image in divinity: “..he that hath seen me hath seen the Father (9)....the Father that dwelleth IN ME, he doeth the works.” (10); but the Son in humanity: “..the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself...”.(10). “..and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s which sent me”. (24). He of his own self could do nothing. Why?...because the man Christ Jesus was not sent to do his own will, but the Father that sent him. John 5:30.
**Mat_16:17 ... my Father
Mat_18:10 ... my Father
Mat_18:19 ... my Father
Mat_18:35 ... my heavenly Father
Mar 8:38 ... his Father
(There’s that pesky possessive again)
I can’t help but to find your retorts silly. What do you hope to prove by “His” or “my,” when we are talking about a trinity in the Godhead?**
Well, we’re making progress...you agree that there are possessives. The Spirit IS the Father’s to do with as he so pleases. The Father IS the Son’s father.
**Upon John 14 your entire excuse for disproving all the scriptures wherein Christ is called God rests, and that is why I have not seriously handled any of your posts since then.**
You haven’t seriously handled them, because you can’t handle them under you man-made parameters. If you could answer the questions, you would, since you seem to declare a vast superiority in understanding the Word. Here they are again:
1. Are you and your word two separate and distinct persons? (we are made in the image of God aren’t we?)
2. Who’s greater: The Son says, “My Father, which is GAVE them me, is GREATER than ALL..”. 10:29; and “..for my Father is GREATER than I..”. 14:28.
3. Mat_28:19 “ Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:..”. The greatest teacher of all gave the disciples that commandment, and they promptly went about baptizing in the name of JESUS. Now, first of all, note that he says ‘name’ in the singular, not ‘names’. ‘Son’ is a title. “thou shalt call his NAME Jesus”. Luke 1:21. Jesus Christ said that his name is not his own (John 5:43), And Heb. 1:4 says that he inheritted it. The apostles knew what they were doing when they baptized in the name of ‘Jesus’. Do you use his name in water baptism?
4. “The Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the FATHER will SEND in MY NAME...”. So, what name are YOU going to use to request the coming of the Holy Ghost?
5. AND........don’t forget Matthew 28:18; Jesus..spake...”All power is GIVEN unto me in heaven and in Earth” (that’s pretty much everywhere, and let’s see, who GAVE it unto him?......could it be the Father that dwelleth in him, and he in the Father?).
6. Jesus praying to the Father (17:1), “And this is life eternal, that they might know THEE the ONLY TRUE GOD, ........AND........JESUS CHRIST, whom THOU hast SENT.” John 17:3. So, do you disagree with the Son, who declares the Father to be the “ONLY TRUE GOD”? (That’s some more ‘plain reading’; just like ‘the ‘Father in me, and I in the Father’)..
And you didn’t deal with this:
Food for thought: 15:1 A vine (Son) and a husbandman (the Father). The husbandman plants the vine and cares for it, etc. The ‘husbandman’ gave the ‘vine’ it’s start, provides all it’s needs, and has the power to prune or even kill the vine. Of itself, the vine has no such power.
**The Firstborn is in reference to preeminence, not being a creature:**
That’s your interpretation. He is begotten of the Father, remember? Heb. 1:5,6
Gotta go to the Memorial Day parade! I’ll be back later.
“He further explain that those that receive the Spirit of God will have the same dual nature as him: a human being filled with Spirit....”..and greater works shall he do; because I go unto the Father”. (remember, he had to go away before the Comforter would come)
The words “AT THAT DAY” expressly tell us that we will be like him, when filled with the Spirit, BECAUSE.....”For as many as are led by the Spirit of God (not ‘God the Spirit’),”
These ideas are barely even coherent, since all it does is make the accusation stronger. So, essentially, you say that believers “will have the same dual nature” as you allege Christ has, yet you don’t explain why it is believers cannot claim to be God, as Christ does, or receive worship, as Christ does, even though they have the same Spirit in them that you claim allowed Christ to claim divinity.
Rom_8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Notice the Holy Spirit is here called both the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ who dwells within us. Yet, despite having Christ in us, and the Father in us (he’s in Christ!) as you would read John 14th, the Apostles reject worship, even when Christ accepts it routinely.
“The Son was appointed heir of all things (Heb 1:2). How can he be ‘appointed heir’ to something that was already his, according to your belief system?”
For the very simple reason that Jesus is both the Son of God and the Son of David. In other words, He is truly God and truly man. As God made flesh, He “thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men” (Php 2:6-7). That Christ submitted Himself to the Father, and relied on the power given to Him alone as the perfect human being rather than on His own power, does not take away from the fact that Christ is “the Almighty” & “the Mighty God” (Rev 1:8, Isaiah 9:6).
“Are you and your word two separate and distinct persons? (we are made in the image of God aren’t we?)”
Apparently you can’t make up your mind on whether the Word is God or not. If the Word is not distinct from God, then the Word is just another name for God (thus, you’re a modalist). But the scripture teaches that the Word is both with God and is God.
Joh_1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
That is why the Holy Spirit is both God, and is yet with God:
Isa_48:16 ... and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.
Act 5:3-4 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? (4) Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
Did they lie to the Holy Ghost, or did they lie to God? Is the Holy Spirit God because He has the Father in Him too? So goes your silly argument.
Joh_20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
Is Jesus Christ God because of the Father in Him, but not Thomas himself who would later be filled with the ‘Spirit of God’ & “The Spirit of Christ”?
“Well, we’re making progress...you agree that there are possessives.”
That’s like saying the Spirit of God isn’t God, because God owns His own Spirit. And yet, God wouldn’t be God unless He had His Spirit, and the Father wouldn’t be a Father at all unless He had the Son. To take away any of the members of the Trinity, then God is no longer God.
I’ll stick with the firm word of the scripture over your confusion any day.