Posted on 05/05/2013 10:16:01 AM PDT by NYer
Are you saved?
Have you ever been asked this question? Has anyone ever told you that Catholics think they can work their way into Heaven?
The Catholic Church does not now, nor has it ever, taught a doctrine of salvation by works - that we can “work” our way into Heaven. And, the Bible does not teach that we are saved by “faith alone.” The only place in all of Scripture where the phrase “Faith Alone” appears, is in James 2:24, where it says that we are not justified (or saved) by faith alone. However, if works have nothing to do with our salvation, then how come every passage in the New Testament that talks about judgment says we will be judged by our works, not by whether or not we have faith alone? (See Rom 2, Matthew 15 and 16, 1 Ptr 1, Rev 20 and 22, 2 Cor 5, and many, many more verses).
If we are saved by faith alone, why does 1 Cor 13:13 say that love is greater than faith? Shouldn’t it be the other way around?
As Catholics we believe that we are saved by God’s grace alone. We can do nothing, apart from God’s grace, to receive the free gift of salvation. We also believe, however, that we have to respond to God’s grace. Protestants believe that, too. However, many Protestants believe that the only response necessary is an act of faith; whereas, Catholics believe a response of "faith and works" is necessary, or, as the Bible puts it in Galatians 5:6, “For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumsion is of any avail, but faith working through love." (Just as the Church teaches.)
St. Paul said he needed to work out his salvation with "fear and trembling." If anyone professed their faith in Jesus it was Paul. If he felt so assured of his salvation because of his faith alone in Jesus, why then would he be trembling, and have to work out his salvation?
So, the next time someone asks you if you are saved, the Catholic should reply:
As the Bible says, I am already saved (Rom. 8:24, Eph. 2:5–8), but I’m also being saved (1 Cor. 1:8, 2 Cor. 2:15, Phil. 2:12), and I have the hope that I will be saved (Rom. 5:9–10, 1 Cor. 3:12–15). Like the apostle Paul I am working out my salvation in fear and trembling (Phil. 2:12), with hopeful confidence in the promises of Christ (Rom. 5:2, 2 Tim. 2:11–13)." ♥
I’ll jump into this horner’s nest. First there is the work that Christ did on the Cross. From there, Faith in Christ is the bedrock foundation where everything else flows. Works that proceed from Faith is a testimony of Christ and the Faith in Him. Works without faith is mere noise (a clanging bell, or something like that), as Paul wrote in one of his letters. Works flows from faith, and is a testimony of faith. A lot of Holy Spirit involved here, so there is not any man-made formulaic list of do this and do that. So there is a lot of “seek ye first” involved.
Go ahead, pick it apart. I don;t claim to be a theologan.
The point I’m making is not faith vs works, it’s certainty of salvation.
Read what I wrote again:
Is the biblical attitude of fear and trembling towards ones salvation consistent with the authors belief of easy certainty?
As it is, I'll get the popecorn and Milkduds ready :)
LESSON James 1:22-27
Beloved: But be ye doers of the word and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. For if a man be a hearer of the word and not a doer, he shall be compared to a man beholding his own countenance in a glass. For he beheld himself and went his way and presently forgot what manner of man he was. But he that hath looked into the perfect law of liberty and hath continued therein, not becoming a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work: this man shall be blessed in his deed. And if any man think himself to be religious, not bridling his tongue but deceiving his own heart, this man’s religion is vain. Religion clean and undefiled before God and the Father is this: to visit the fatherless and widows in their tribulation and to keep one’s self unspotted from this world.
Not every one that says to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that does the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.
—Jesus (Matthew 7:21)
Beloved: But be ye doers of the word and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. For if a man be a hearer of the word and not a doer, he shall be compared to a man beholding his own countenance in a glass. For he beheld himself and went his way and presently forgot what manner of man he was. But he that hath looked into the perfect law of liberty and hath continued therein, not becoming a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work: this man shall be blessed in his deed. And if any man think himself to be religious, not bridling his tongue but deceiving his own heart, this man's religion is vain. Religion clean and undefiled before God and the Father is this: to visit the fatherless and widows in their tribulation and to keep one's self unspotted from this world.
My soul magnifies the Lord,
And my spirit rejoices in God my Savior.
For He has regarded the low estate of His handmaiden,
For behold, henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
For He who is mighty has done great things for me, and holy is His name. And His mercy is on those who fear Him from generation to generation.
He has shown strength with His arm:
He has scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.
He has put down the mighty from their thrones,
and exalted those of low degree.
He has filled the hungry with good things;
and the rich He has sent empty away.
He has helped His servant Israel, in remembrance of His mercy;
As He spoke to our fathers, to Abraham and to His posterity forever.
Glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit.
As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen
Magníficat ánima mea Dóminum,
et exsultávit spíritus meus
in Deo salvatóre meo,
quia respéxit humilitátem
ancíllæ suæ.
Ecce enim ex hoc beátam
me dicent omnes generatiónes,
quia fecit mihi magna,
qui potens est,
et sanctum nomen eius,
et misericórdia eius in progénies
et progénies timéntibus eum.
Fecit poténtiam in bráchio suo,
dispérsit supérbos mente cordis sui;
depósuit poténtes de sede
et exaltávit húmiles.
Esuriéntes implévit bonis
et dívites dimísit inánes.
Suscépit Ísrael púerum suum,
recordátus misericórdiæ,
sicut locútus est ad patres nostros,
Ábraham et sémini eius in sæcula.
Glória Patri et Fílio
et Spirítui Sancto.
Sicut erat in princípio,
et nunc et semper,
et in sæcula sæculórum.
Amen.
She became the Mother of God, in which work so many and such great good things are bestowed on her as pass man’s understanding. For on this there follows all honor, all blessedness, and her unique place in the whole of mankind, among which she has no equal, namely, that she had a child by the Father in heaven, and such a Child . . . Hence men have crowded all her glory into a single word, calling her the Mother of God . . . None can say of her nor announce to her greater things, even though he had as many tongues as the earth possesses flowers and blades of grass: the sky, stars; and the sea, grains of sand. It needs to be pondered in the heart what it means to be the Mother of God.
(Commentary on the Magnificat, 1521; in Luther’s Works, Pelikan et al, vol. 21, 326)
"Regarding the debate about faith and works: It's like asking which blade in a pair of scissors is most important."
- C.S. Lewis.
One cannot be the author of his own salvation if he is dead and destitute of any means or merit to obtain it. If you understood Reformation theology you would know that it holds that God enables spiritually dead man to be able to respond to God and who gives him faith, thus man can claim not credit. The elect do what they normally would not and could not.
But while it hold that it is precisely faith that appropriates justification, the faith that justifies must be the kind that effects the "obedience of faith" toward its Object. And which works justify one as having true faith. The faith that justifies is a faith that confesses. (Rm. 10:9,10)
Salvation by grace under Catholicism means that the call of God is not due to "any merits existing on their parts," but by God's grace they, "who by sins were alienated from God, may be disposed through His quickening and assisting grace, to convert themselves to their own justification, by freely assenting to and co-operating with that said grace." (Trent, Cp. V.)
Yet it is by an actual holiness of heart (infused righteousness via baptism) that one is counted righteous:
The Catholic idea maintains that the formal cause of justification does not consist in an exterior imputation of the justice of Christ, but in a real, interior sanctification effected by grace, which abounds in the soul and makes it permanently holy before God (cf. Trent, Sess. VI, cap. vii; can. xi). Although the sinner is justified by the justice of Christ, inasmuch as the Redeemer has merited for him the grace of justification (causa meritoria), nevertheless he is formally justified and made holy by his own personal justice and holiness (causa formalis),
She also allows for justification apart from baptism, under contritio caritate perfecta, which works ex opere operantis:
If the contrition be perfect (contritio caritate perfecta), then active justification results, that is, the soul is immediately placed in the state of grace even before the reception of the sacrament of baptism or penance, though not without the desire for the sacrament (votum sacramenti). If, on the other hand, the contrition be only an imperfect one (attritio), then the sanctifying grace can only be imparted by the actual reception of the sacrament (cf. Trent, Sess. VI, cc. iv and xiv). — Catholic Encyclopedia> Sanctifying Grace
No one needs to understand all of this to be born again, as "The Lord is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit." (Psalms 34:18)
In Scripture the lost come to Christ as contrite damned + destitute sinners, casting all their faith on the mercy of God in Christ to save them, confessing the Lord Jesus in baptism, and being born again they went on to serve Him. But the problem is that of religion without regeneration, that treats souls as regenerate due to undergoing a ritual as infants and answering some questions, but without a day of salvation under a real conviction of sin, and personal repentance directly toward God and faith in Christ.
Indeed lets look again, as there is absolutely no real contradiction. The canons you cite are disallowing salvation by works apart from the grace of God through Jesus Christ, as if a soul "may be justified before God by his own works...without the grace of God through Jesus Christ ;" "and to live justly, and to merit eternal life, as if, by free will without grace , he were able to do both," and "that without the prevenient inspiration of the Holy Ghost, and without his help , man can believe.."
My statement of what canon 32 teaches is accurate, that,
“If anyone says that the one justified by the good works that he performs by the grace of God does not truly merit eternal life, and in case he dies in grace, the attainment of eternal life itself, let him be anathema.”
“If anyone says that the good works of the one justified are in such manner the gifts of God that they are not also the good merits of him justified; or that the one justified by the good works that he performs by the grace of God and the merit of Jesus Christ, whose living member he is, does not truly merit an increase of grace, eternal life, and in case he dies in grace, the attainment of eternal life itself and also an increase of glory, let him be anathema.” (Trent, Canons Concerning Justification, Canon 32)
Is the biblical attitude of fear and trembling towards ones salvation consistent with the authors belief of easy certainty?
It is you who are guilty of misrepresenting what i said, which is not that of a belief of easy certainty, but one that requires saving faith to evidence "things which accompany salvation," (Heb. 6:9) contrary such souls as the majority of liberal RCs whom Rome counts and treats as members in life and in death.
Former Roman Catholic, born again Christian. I now know I’m safe!
It seems to me that Luke 18:9-14 would be instructive with regard to this question.
Ephesians 2:8-9 King James Version (KJV)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
I believe that our works are the evidence of our faith (a gift from God; I also believe God gives us the desire to work for him after we accept his gift of salvation.
1Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
Apparently the previous verse doesn't apply to Catholics...
Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
We will be saved from God's wrath...You have to look around in the bible a bit to find out what God's wrath is and it's non aplication to Christians...
Or, you can ingore the sciptures and twist each verse to say what you want it to say...
Sorry, but you have to give up eternal security to become a Catholic...
Of course Catholics are saved by their Baptism that washes away the sin.
But if we were baptized as a child, then we continually, every month or six weeks put ourselves on a schedule for the Sacrament of Penance/Reconciliation. Some people call it Confession.
We know we are sinners and must always seek the forgiveness of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit that we received in Baptism through this sacrament.
Why do you post these things that are not true about the Catholic Church?
Thanks for bumping the thread.
Some of your links have some mistaken information posted, however.
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