Posted on 05/03/2013 10:50:36 AM PDT by marshmallow
Candida Moss, a professor of early Christianity at the University of Notre Dame and a practicing Catholic, wants to shatter what she calls the “myth” of martyrdom in the Christian faith.
Sunday school tales of early Christians being rounded up at their secret catacomb meetings and thrown to the lions by evil Romans are mere fairy tales, Moss writes in a new book. In fact, in the first 250 years of Christianity, Romans mostly regarded the religion's practitioners as meddlesome members of a superstitious cult.
The government actively persecuted Christians for only about 10 years, Moss suggests, and even then intermittently. And, she says, many of the best known early stories of brave Christian martyrs were entirely fabricated.
The controversial thesis, laid out in "The Myth of Persecution: How Early Christians Invented a Story of Martyrdom," has earned her a lot of hate mail and a few sidelong looks from fellow faculty members. But Moss maintains that the Roman Catholic Church and historians have known for centuries that most early Christian martyr stories were exaggerated or invented.
A small group of priest scholars in the 17th century began sifting through the myths, discrediting not only embellished stories about saints (including that St. George slew a dragon) but also tossing out popular stories about early Christian martyrs.
Historians, including Moss, say only a handful of martyrdom stories from the first 300 years of Christianity—which includes the reign of the cruel, Christian-loathing Nero—are verifiable. (Saint Perpetua of Carthage, pictured in the stained glass window above, is one of the six famous early Christian martyrs Moss believes was actually killed for her faith.)
(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...
“Flesh woman?” is there any other kind? And if you are applying this to the mother of Jesus, it is a contemptible thing to say. Further, Jesus himself was born of a woman, which means he was fleshy as well.
Actually Edward Gibbon did the debunking 200 years ago. He gave credence to about 2000 martyrs.(Based upon memory)
[[All that is accurate history]]
Sources?
[[Right. I’m arguing that a chick prof just magically came up with a list of six, and only six martyrs that passed her mystical ‘sniff test’,]]
Precisely, and fro mthere she apaprently extrapolates all the way out to and insinuation of ‘So therefore most other stories could not be true as well’.
Clever sophistry. She's playing word games.
Every serious historian admits that persecution of Christians wasn't constant, that it flared up at some moments and then died down. There's nothing new in that.
It looks like Candida is denying the reality of persecution to score points in today's political debates and to make a name for herself.
The book really isn’t about history, which Ms. Moss mangles, but is rather aimed at current political battles which can clearly be seen in the promo video at the beginning of this post.
From the comments: “Her argument is so utterly weird — especially in that she is apparently arguing that if Christians were being persecuted for something they did as Christians (like, say, not sacrificing to the emperor) that this somehow didn’t count as persecution so long as the Roman’s weren’t going after them specifically for believing in Christ. “
Precisely- in a nutshell- her main argument is that while Christyians wetre put to death for not bowing and sdacrificing to the Empereror, that because the ‘government’ didn’t pursue htem specifically because they were Christians and hunt htem down for bweing Christians, that this ‘doesn’t count’ as persectution of Christians
Not sure why “Christians’ are defendign htis chick with an agenda- seems they woudl be appalled at her obvious attack on CHristianity, and be appalled at her warped reasoning and make hte effort to defend Christianty insterasd of rushign to her defense- but whatever- Many peopel call themselves Christiansdc b ut ALWAYS seem to side with, and defend Anti-Christian ideology and seem to relish any attackso nthe faith that come along- Seems ot me the lvoe of God really isn’t present in their lives
Perhaps she woudl also make the claim that because Gvoenrments all over hte world aren’t wpecifically citing the person’s faith right before they put the Christian to death, that current day persecuition and Martyredome isn’t takign palce today too- (Yet anyoen with an iota of common sense can correctly conclude that Christians ARE ifnacft beign targetted and murderecd and Martyred for hteir faith REGARDLESS of whether the systematic murderer declares it or not
It has to do with internal conflicts between various factions: mainstream vs. evangelical, liberal vs. traditionalist.
[[The moron professor probably thinks that the Sudan is a perfectly safe for a openly practicing christian to live...]]
Yes, becausei n herm ind, even if that person is put to death, the govenrment won’t have actually ‘targetted the person simpyl because they are Christians’ (even though EVERYONE but liberals understand that the persons ARE targetted because they are Christians)- Apparently the Executioner has to declare “Because you are a Christian, I am gouign to murder you’ before she will find it a ‘ligitimate case’ or persecution and martyredom
Very well said.
Moss is a practicing turd.
As I said, Chabad as its problems. First there are the Meshichists who claim the late Lubavitcher Rebbe (zt"l) is Mashiach HaMelekh. But that's nothing. The real heresy that exists within Chabad is 'Eloqut, the belief that the late Rebbe was (G-d forbid!) "G-d in a human body." I don't think there are many of these people (there are certainly fewer than there are Meshichists, and they are a minority themselves). But their presence is troubling.
Today's Chabad has critics among the Sages and great Rabbis but the Rebbe had admirers among them as well.
As for our friend Hacksaw, well . . . having taken a look at his recent posting history I can only say that he isn't arguing from a "kosher" perspective. He is in fact an unfortunate example of a type of poster who once infested FR but have been largely kicked off over the years. That he has been here longer than I have is troubling.
“Flesh woman?” is there any other kind? And if you are applying this to the mother of Jesus, it is a contemptible thing to say. Further, Jesus himself was born of a woman, which means he was fleshy as well.”
Luk 11:27-28 And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked. (28) But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.
I certainly wouldn’t speak ill of Mary since it’s not her fault that Rome has made a deity out of her. But the idea of Mary as being higher than other women of faith, on top of this idea that her prayers can get us out of purgatory, or that kneeling in front of her statue gives us access to some kind of magical “grace” with which to better our chances of getting into heaven, or that she is a mediator between man and the One True Mediator is pure superstition and idolatry.
IT does not matter what you or I find 'contemptible', it is what the Heavenly Father finds 'contemptible'. Mary was not His wife. In what Rome calls allegory, it is Written that the Heavenly Father divorced Israel for her idolatry/adultery... as she Israel went whoring after her neighbors 'gods'. And Israel's sister Judah did no better. Jeremiah 3:8
Paul who penned most of the so called New Testament wrote ICorinthians 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
And the new pope claims he has dibs on Jesus, that only through him can Jesus be found. OH the folly.
Neither credulity nor a "hermeneutic of suspicion" serves the truth. One just has to do the standard literary detective work. Hard work --- and it doesn't necessarily produce unanimous agreement --- but it's worth the effort.
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St. Peter and Rome
Did the Apostle Peter Ever Visit Rome?
Occasionally Naive and Fearful, Yet Honest and Capable of Repentance (Profile of St. Peter)
Saint Peter As Seen by His Successor (extraordinary document from B16 on his preaching and papacy)
HOMILIES PREACHED BY FATHER ALTIER ON THE FEAST OF SAINTS PETER AND PAUL
Peter, Witness of the Resurrection (Papal preparations for Easter 2006)
The Fraternal Society of St. Peter on EWTN
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Your 'catholic' in-laws must be either members of some quasi-catholic kook cult, or, excuse me, quite ignorant.
Does she say anything about the recently crucified Christians in Egypt?
/johnny
My 'catholic' in-laws are quite devoted to their church. IF they are quasi-catholic kook cult, or, you are excused, quite ignorant, then the problem is viral not theirs alone.
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