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To: Elsie; Natural Law
Works are not an input to the process of Salvation, but rather a necessary response to Salvation. Where they are absent so too is Salvation. Works do, however, have an efficacious effect on Grace which is an input to Salvation. As the Holy Spirit is the manifestation op the love between the Father and the Son, Grace is the manifestation of the love between God and man. Agape is the sharing of that Grace / love, with each other. Passing on the Grace we receive, through corporeal and spiritual works of mercy, is the only way we can cooperate with and retain the Grace God gives us freely.

Got that, elsie? "Works" are not done in order to get salvation, but to keep it and it is all still grace. Does this double talk sound a little Mormonish to you, too?

170 posted on 05/01/2013 3:38:35 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: boatbums
"Got that, elsie? "Works" are not done in order to get salvation, but to keep it and it is all still grace..."

More distortions. (I know, old myths die hard.) I never said "keep", that is a term that has been unsuccessfully injected into the discussion several times now. I resisted the first attempt to to impose it on actual Catholic teaching and will continue to do so. Where there are no Fruit of the Holy Spirit there is no Holy Spirit. Where there are no works, faith is dead and there is no Salvation.

Peace be to you

171 posted on 05/01/2013 3:55:54 PM PDT by Natural Law (Jesus did not leave is a book, He left us a Church.)
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To: boatbums
Does this double talk sound a little Mormonish to you, too?

If I compared Catholics to Mormons I might be accused of bashing them.

180 posted on 05/01/2013 6:49:22 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: boatbums
Your question seems quite valid...


If there are your foot prints in the snow it is evidence you walked there.

196 posted on 05/02/2013 4:31:27 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: boatbums; Elsie; Natural Law
Got that, elsie? "Works" are not done in order to get salvation, but to keep it and it is all still grace. Does this double talk sound a little Mormonish to you, too?

Galatians 3

O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. 2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? 4 Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? 5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith— 6 just as Abraham “believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”?

7 Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham. 8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.” 9 So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

10 For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.” 11 Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.” 12 But the law is not of faith, rather “The one who does them shall live by them.” 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”— 14 so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.

15 To give a human example, brothers: even with a man-made covenant, no one annuls it or adds to it once it has been ratified. 16 Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many, but referring to one, “And to your offspring,” who is Christ. 17 This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void. 18 For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.

19 Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary. 20 Now an intermediary implies more than one, but God is one.

21 Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law. 22 But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

23 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. 24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, 26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.

205 posted on 05/02/2013 10:02:17 AM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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