But they can never have one of these.
It’s no stretch and it makes logical sense. It’s fundamentally what liberalism is all about - destroying the moral underpinnings of society. Each liberal is a god.
My concern is how many catholics will vote for God? I was stunned when my very active, very religious Greek Orthodox friend recently came out in favor of SSM. We’re really behind the curve on this.
There’s also this aspect...in a culture where anything goes and people feel insecure and demand order, the government is a huge threat, yes, and it does become arbitrary, yes, but here’s the other threat: Radical Islam. Sharia law. Western culture devoid of Judeo-Christian morality is fully ripe for takeover by Radical Islam. As unspeakably horrible as that ideology is, it WILL provide standards and order.
“Nature abhors a vacuum”.
That’s why polygamy, same sex marriage and other such evils are in fact barbarism- they tear at the foundations of civilization itself.
They get very uncomfortable very quickly. I point out that they do have a limit I just draw mine where God draws his. Then I ask why they feel they know better than God.
But they can never have one of these.
The problem here is not morality, but authority. That is, the religions have allowed the state to take over authority in what is both a biological and religious necessity.
And the state has promptly fouled up on both counts, by allowing or encouraging non-biologically optimal associations and calling them “marriage”, and by using this authority to subvert the religious sacrament of marriage.
The way to redeem the situations is for all Orthodox religions to band together to reach the agreement that the *only* marriages they recognize are sacramental, performed by one of them in full compliance with the agreement.
Likewise, they will only recognize divorce (if they permit it at all) based in the agreement. In either case, they may add restrictions based on their faith, but they may not diminish them, and still perform recognized sacramental marriages or divorces.
Essential to this idea is that it is *exclusive*. It excludes and does not recognize “liberal religious” or secular marriage, any more than it would recognize a pagan marriage rite as genuine.
All members of these churches may choose or not to also have a marriage certificate “to appease Caesar”, but that is unimportant and put in the same light as a tax document. It does not mean that they are married, just that they have paid the “marriage tax”.
This also strips any religious association with homosexual, polygamous, bestial, or pedophile “marriages” that the state permits. As well, it is one in the eye to liberal religions that permit such deviance.
The big value in this is evidenced in the creation of “covenant marriages” some years ago. It attracted many young couples who didn’t want either an easy path to marriage or divorce, who were serious about getting married and wanted everyone who knew them to know it.
The bottom line is that by retaking the sacrament of marriage, the Orthodox religions restore its value, and despise its corruptions.
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Hi there; sorry I’m kinda coming in late on this one, but just to provide a bit of devil’s advocacy here:
This issue can be avoided by examining the base principles of the morality at stake. Basically, you have to ask “what is morality, and what does it do”.
There are a few basic moral principles that everyone tends to be able to agree upon: equality (in that no one has more rights than anyone else, not in that we’re all identical) & fairness, everyone ‘getting along’, and - most importantly - reduction and prevention of harm. It’s this last one which is crucial for an argument like this.
Basically, if you can say “the purpose of morality is to let all of us exist together without harming each other”, than you can reach the conclusions they do: does stealing harm another? Yes. Does killing someone do harm? Yes. Does allowing two people of the same gender to get married harm anyone? No. Does allowing multiple people of assorted genders to get married harm anyone? They would argue “no”.
You can go on to explore that “no” if it’s not satisfactory - for example, you can bring up the exploitative cases of polygamy in which you end up with one husband racking up wives essentially against their will, like in certain fundamentalist Mormon or Islamic sects. However, you could rebut this by bringing up the idea that by making it legal and regulated (that is, like marriage is now), you can avoid environments that produce such exploitation.
The key argument that allows someone to avoid the slippery slope into relativism is that even if there is no objective morality, so long as you properly describe on a purpose for morality, you can objectively gauge how well or poorly a given moral system lives up to it. Arguably, this actually comes with an advantage - someone who doesn’t think morality is objective is able to better adapt to new data, reasons to value something more or less on a moral level.
Does that make sense?
The first polygamist mentioned in the Bible is Lamech, whose two wives were Adah and Zillah (Gen 4:19). Abraham's wives were Sarah, Hagar (Gen 16:3, 21:1-13), Keturah (Gen 25:1), and concubines (who are referred to as "wives" in other parts of the Bible) (Gen 25:6). Jacob's four wives are Leah and Rachel (Gen 29:28) and despite an oath with their father Laban to not take any additional wives (Gen 31:48-54), Jacob took Bilhah (Gen 30:4) and Zilpah (Gen 30:9). Moses' two wives were Zipporah (Ex 2:21, Ex 18:1-6) and an Ethiopian woman (Num 12:1). Interestingly enough, Aaron and Miriam were punished for disapproving of Moses' forbidden marriage. Gideon "had many wives" (Judges 8:29-32). Elkanah, Samuel's father, had two wives, Hannah and Peninnah (1 Samuel 1:1-2). An accurate list of David's wives would include at least five named wives: Michal (1 Sam 18:27, 19:11-18, 25:44; 2 Sam 3:13-14, 6:20-23), Abigail of Carmel (1 Sam 25:39, 1 Chr 3), Ahinoam of Jezreel (1 Sam 25:43, 1 Chr 3), Eglah (2 Sam 3:4-5, 1 Chr 3) and Bathsheba (2 Sam 12:24). David also took "more wives and concubines" in 2 Sam 5:13, 12:7-8, 1 Chr 14:3. Three additional women are mentioned, but we are not told if they are wives or concubines: Maacah (2 Sam 3:3, 1 Chr 3), Abital (2 Sam 3:3-4, 1 Chr 3) and Haggith (2 Sam 3:3, 1 Chr 3). Lastly, there are the ten concubines, or wives as they are referred to in 2 Sam 5:13, 15:16, 16:21-23, 1 Chr 14:3, bringing David's total to at least 22+ "wives/concubines". According to 1 Kings 11:3, David's son Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines.
In addition to the many examples of plural marriage, the Pentateuch also lists guidelines and rules concerning the taking of multiple wives, noting "If he takes another wife to himself, he shall not diminish her food, her clothing, or her marital rights"...