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To: Alex Murphy

I have studied and read much on the Trinity, because I have some relative in the “oneness” movement.

I come from a Baptist background, and have always believed in the Trinity.

However, over the course of 10 years, I investigated this (I like doing my own work and reading others rather than relying on the opinions of others, essentially I “check facts”). That’s why my handle is BereanBrain. The Bereans were commended for checking the scriptures to see if what even the Apostles said was true (concerning the Gospel).

That being said, there are a few camps in those that believe in the Trinity, and those that don’t. Let me see if I can summarize them.

1) We believe in the Trinity because we were taught it. These folks typically stick on the English meanings of words, and Church history, and just believe, without thinking too much about the implications. The individuals often agree with the belief that the Trinity is something you can’t understand, but you may be able to comprehend the overall idea. Or that you can’t prove the Trinity. This is typical of “reformed” believers.

2) We believe we can understand the Trinity. See Romans 1:20. Essentially, the these people believe two things. (1) God is not like man, rather man is a image of God and (2) that God’s divine nature can be seen in his creation. The second point implies we can understand God by the things he has created. The people typically believe they understand the Trinity and that there really are no inconsistencies with 3 in 1 (Triune) existence.

3) Those that do not believe the Trinity. These people generally object to the idea of three “persons”. Typically like #1 (orthodoxy based believers) they examine the words instead of the meanings and implications and therefore object to the “threeness” of God.

I happen to have originally belonged to group 1, and now group.

So let’s examine the problem: Can we know the answer?
YES! Romans 1:20

For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse

So this says the NATURE of God’s existence EVEN the Godhead — CAN be understood! The Trinity is NOT A MYSTERY.

Now let’s take scripture at it’s word, and believe what it says. We SHOULD be able to find rough analogs in the creation that demonstrate the nature of God’s existence.

Consider that the ENTIRE UNIVERSE exists as 3 in 1.
That is, Height, Width and Depth (X,Y,Z). If you reduce the dimensions by 1 or 2 (instead of 3) the volume of the universe is ZERO.

Consider that Man has Body, Soul, and Spirit. Does this mean there are three men? NO! Also recall that in man, the flesh has a will, as does the soul, and the Spirit. Does this mean you are three persons? NO! The flesh wars against the soul. God told Adam that the DAY they eat of the fruit they would DIE. Obviously their bodies did not, but their Spirit did. That’s why we are dead without Christ. Before we are saved, the spirit of inequity is at work in us, and after we are believers, the spirit of God resurrects our spirit.

God is Spirit (there are verses to that), and the Holy Spirit is God (there are verses to that) and Jesus is God (there are verses to this effect, as well as Jesus’ words)

The problem is the way we define PERSON. To us, a PERSON IS THE BODY.

8 posted on 04/17/2013 2:13:12 PM PDT by BereanBrain
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To: BereanBrain; DouglasKC
read Doug's recent posts for the perspective of his Universal Church of God.

It seems that besides the Mormon multiple gods, the Jehovah's Witness (Jesus is a demiurge), the Moslem (Jesus and the Holy Spirit are not God) and the Unitarian (all are just the same, we perceive them as distinct), there is the UGC which is that Jesus and the Father are distinct gods and the Holy Spirit is not a god or God.

11 posted on 04/17/2013 11:25:05 PM PDT by Cronos (Latin presbuteros->Late Latin presbyter->Old English pruos->Middle Engl prest->priest)
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