You should probably be horrified at the idea (the way you understand it), since it implies that you can not be chosen; after all, you don’t believe you are chosen because of the grace of God without works.
Ah, you are a rerun antiCatholic after all. Mind telling us your former screen name(s)?
What horrifies me is the assumption that the dude in the mirror is saved simply because he declares it. That puts God in a position of subservience to you. Nope. Or else we have the assumption that only some are saved and some are discarded at God's whim. In that case, your stated position is untenable again. Or else we have the assumption that all are saved. Again, untenable. There is no nonCatholic position that holds water when one reads and understands Scripture.
2Ti_1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
But the “choice” being made isn’t based on our merits, but on the sovereign grace of God who foreknows us and predestinates us so that we are conformed to the image of His Son. It is for the purpose that we, through the power of God, are conformed to holiness; not because He foreknew that we would conform ourselves to holiness. Joh_6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
If I shall not be thrown out, who is drawn to the Father, shall I live in the terrible life of a Romanist who rests in Roman carnal ordinances that in no way saves you or makes you a better person?
If? Now we are quibbling and running around trying to mask the shifting sands of our position? How do you know that you are saved? Do you follow the Great Commandments of Jesus? Do you think that they are applicable to you the individual?
The effectual call is to all believers ordained before the foundation of the world:
Yeah? You count yourself in that group? Why?
“Piffle. Those who talk about the “Roman” church or “Romanists” and so on say a lot of mush like this that really doesn’t mean anything. Augustine contributed much, but at one point in his life, he drifted into heresy. I don’t hold those heretical beliefs, if that’s what you mean.”
Can you please provide evidence that Augustine’s “Calvinist” views and their use in the rejection of Pelagianism is in fact heresy or was considered heresy? No doubt it is today, but can you provide evidence that it was at that time?
Sure. Google up Ambrose's chats with Augustine and see what the Church believed and believes today. Ambrose never fell out with the Church.
And after that, can you address the quotes from “Pope” Gregory the first and Theodoret wherein the “Primacy of Peter” is applied to three separate Bishops who all possess the throne of Peter?
Mind providing me a link? I'd like to see what source you are referring to.
Maybe then I can take you seriously, and not regard you as someone who argues when he has no foundation for it.
You are far too kind. I most appreciate the antiCatholics that I have met on FR and elsewhere. They have strengthened my Faith to an extent that I would not previously have believed. Perhaps God has nudged us together so that I may believe more deeply and grow in the Faith that is handed down to us from the Apostles, who received it directly from Christ Himself.
“Ah, you are a rerun antiCatholic after all. Mind telling us your former screen name(s)?”
Is it anti-Catholic to accurately depict your theology and contrast it with the scripture?
“What horrifies me is the assumption that the dude in the mirror is saved simply because he declares it.”
Then you are horrified at the scripture, since I can get up and look at the mirror right now and say:
Rom_10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Either salvation is a free gift from God, or it is not. You can’t have it both ways. You poor fellow, you think that you can block the way to salvation. Thank God the only way to heaven is through Christ Himself, and not through MarkBsnr or the carnal ordinances of his religion.
“That puts God in a position of subservience to you.”
Wrong. YOU put God in subservience to you, because you declare that by your works you can force God’s hand to save you. Did you even read anything that I wrote? Did you even read the scripture? I told you, salvation is the work of God, from beginning to end. Nothing that I have is my own. All that I am, I have received from the Father. Without Him, we can have nothing, can be nothing, we can know nothing. To God is the eternal glory.
Joh 6:64-65 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. (65) And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
“If? Now we are quibbling and running around trying to mask the shifting sands of our position?”
Are you even capable of logically comprehending what I was writing? Did I say I disbelieved what Jesus Christ said? The “if” is for you who will either read what Christ said or not.
“Do you follow the Great Commandments of Jesus?”
Joh 6:28-29 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? (29) Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
Mar 12:30-31 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. (31) And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
Gal_5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Jas_2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
Looks like I do. No Roman bowing or scraping for scraps of grace here.
“Sure.”
So you’re basically arguing that the Church has indeed embraced Pelagianism in rejecting Augustine’s doctrine. You did not provide for me any evidence, however, that Augustine’s doctrine was considered heresy by the church.
“Mind providing me a link? I’d like to see what source you are referring to.”
The link is to this thread. You should have read it before challenging me, after so much information has been provided disputing the very foundations of Roman Catholicism itself.
“Yeah? You count yourself in that group? Why?”-
I already explained it to you. Read the post again.
“Ah, you are a rerun antiCatholic after all. Mind telling us your former screen name(s)?”
Yep. Any ideas?