i'd settle for it, but i'd rather they were excommunicated...
Posted on 04/09/2013 8:03:56 PM PDT by Morgana
DETROIT, April 9, 2013 (LifeSiteNews) – Archbishop Allen Vigneron on Sunday told the Detroit Free Press that Catholic supporters of same-sex ‘marriage’ should not present themselves to receive Communion.
“For a Catholic to receive holy Communion and still deny the revelation Christ entrusted to the church is to try to say two contradictory things at once: ‘I believe the church offers the saving truth of Jesus, and I reject what the church teaches,’” said the archbishop. “In effect, they would contradict themselves. This sort of behavior would result in publicly renouncing one's integrity and logically bring shame for a double-dealing that is not unlike perjury.”
In an email to CNN, Archdiocese spokesman Joe Kohn elaborated on Vigneron’s remarks: “The archbishop's focal point here is not ‘gay marriage’; it is a Catholic’s reception of Holy Communion,” he explained. “If a Catholic publicly opposes the church on a serious matter of the church’s teaching, any serious matter – for example, whether it be a rejection of the divinity of Christ, racist beliefs, support for abortion or support for redefining marriage – that would contradict the public affirmation they would make of the church's beliefs by receiving Communion.”
Both the archbishop and his spokesman said the Church and its pastors stand ready to help Catholics understand and avoid this crisis of faith.
Archbishop Vigneron’s comments followed a blog post by Edward Peters, professor of canon law at Sacred Heart Major Seminary in Detroit and adviser to the Vatican, who wrote March 27, “Catholics who promote ‘same-sex marriage’ act contrary to [church law] and should not approach for holy Communion … they also risk having holy Communion withheld from them … being rebuked … and/or being sanctioned under [church law] for gravely injuring good morals.”
The two church leaders’ comments show a remarkable shift toward orthodoxy for the Detroit Archdiocese, which hadhomosexual activist Thomas Gumbleton as its auxiliary bishop until he was forced by the Vatican to retire in 2006. Gumbleton, who has said he was sexually abused by a Catholic priest in his youth, once famously said of homosexuals, “homosexual people are not disordered people. They are psychologically healthy people. ... Homosexuals are as healthy as anyone else.”
Gumbleton was affiliated with numerous gay activist organizations such as the Triangle Foundation, the Rainbow Sash Movement, and New Ways Ministry, SHARE, and Call to Action. In 1995 he received the Call to Action leadership award.
In contrast, Archbishop Vigneron told a news conference last month that if Catholic leaders were to abandon their teaching against homosexuality, “we would be like physicians who didn’t tell their patients that certain forms of behavior are not really in their best interest.”
It is unclear whether the archbishop intends to deny communion to public proponents of same-sex “marriage,” or whether he will rely on offenders to stay out of the Communion line of their own accord. Calls to the archdiocese seeking clarification were not immediately returned.
Catholic teaching says that those who receive Communion while in serious conflict with the Church are guilty of mortal sin.
“Has this EVER been enforced? “
Have no clue I don’t live in Detroit.
Have you ever reported that situation to your bishop?
i'd settle for it, but i'd rather they were excommunicated...
I have read the catechism and it says the not only is the Catholic church ‘necessary for salvation’ it also says that taking the sacraments is ‘necessary for salvation.’ That is wrong.
That is not what the Bible says is necessary for salvation. Repentance is necessary for salvation. Faith in Jesus is necessary for salvation. I will believe in the what the Bible says and not what an organization/church says in its belief manual.
On the topic of should the Catholic Church withhold communion....Sure, I think they should hold their members to what they say they believe. I just don’t accept alot of what the Catholic church teaches.
That verse doesn’t mean that one mortal man can prevent another mortal man from salvation. The Bible spells out in many places what is “necessary for salvation” and it boils down to belief through faith and repentance. There is NOTHING in the Bible which says that any church is necessary for salvation or that doing any work, such as taking communion, is “necessary for salvation.”
Now I know the catechism of the Catholic church claims those things, but that just shows that the catechism isn’t in line with the Bible, so therefore, I don’t worry about what the catechism says.
No. All that is doing is removing that person from that congregation. That person could still confess their sins and if they weren’t saved before could still come to the saving knowlege of Jesus later. The removal is discipline, which all churches have the right and responcibility to do, but they don’t have the power to “block” their salvation, which that Catholic Catechism teaches (as in saying that the Catholic church or communion is “necessary for salvation”).
Keep reading:
CCC 818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."
819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth" are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements." Christ's Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."
Peace be with you
I have read the catechism and much on and about the Catholic churches beliefs and it is not logical and clear but complex and contradictory to what the Bible plainly teaches.
As I have posted to others already, I know that the Catechism teaches that the Catholic church and communion is “necessary for salvation” but that is NOT what the Bible tells us is necessary for salvation (repentance and faith).
I have no problem with the Catholic church enforcing its beliefs on people who claim to believe what the Catholic church teaches, but I’m just saying I don’t believe a lot of what the Catholic church teaches and believe.
So are you saying that the Catholic church and communion (sacraments) aren’t “necessary for salvation?”
Hmmmmm....I wonder if the Vatican knows this?
Who do you think wrote the Catechism?
You dodged. I’ll ask again....do you believe that the Catholic church and the sacrament of communion/eucharist is “necessary for salvation?”
Obviously. I love Catholic Theology and think it is brilliant. And as Chesterton (noted for Common Sense) stated so well, in “St. Thomas Aquinas” (and he converted to Catholicism later in life-—that the Summa is the pinnacle of “Common Sense” and Reason. In fact, after the Summa and which was the Protestant “Reformation”-—”Logic and Reason” were thrown out-—which was completely eliminated by Marx and the Postmodernists.
And you ignore —(Luke 22:15) “And he took bread, and when he had given thanks he broke it and gave it to them, saying, ‘This is my body which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me.’ And likewise the cup after supper, saying, ‘This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.’ ” (Luke 22:19-20)
Common Sense and Reason is enshrined in the Catholic Canon....if one believes Jesus is the Son of God. This idea that you can be “saved” by “faith alone” and it doesn’t matter what you do in life-—like you can ignore the 10 Commandments, and everything else that Jesus states in the New Testament-—ejects all of the NT, except for two lines ——it is so irrational-—it is really quite insane.
Faith alone?????? and no “works”-—ignore the 10 Commandments and other verses such as Romans 2:13 “”For not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified.”
The idea that there are thousands of “truths” just blows the mind and that any person can “know’ the truth without studying and refecting for years, is absurd. Wisdom takes an infinite amount of work. “Finding Truth”-—getting out of the Matrix takes tons of effort and time and experience, and no one put in more time and effort than the Catholic Church-—except maybe the orthodox Jews.
I did not dodge, I am just getting too old to play pin the tail on the Papist very often. It would be more productive if you just came out and asked a simple question so that I could provide you with a clear and focused answer.
The answer is that one size does not fit all. While it is normatively taught that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body, exceptions exist such as for the invincibly ignorant as I already posted.
Peace be with you
Wow! You truly mangle the words of Christ to Peter, and the unbroken tradition carried out by his Apostles and disciples. St. Augustine remarked that if it weren’t for the authority of the Catholic Church he wold believe. Try St. Thomas Aquinas, and Benedict XVI who has been called the “theological Einstein” of our times.
No wonder we have several thousands of so-called Christian “sects” and “preachers” of the Bible from the Rev. Wright to Rev. Schuller, to Joel Osteen, to Benny Hinn, to Rev. David Koresh, to Rev. Al Sharpton, to Rev. (Kool-Aid) Jim Jones to Rev. Moon’s Korean Church, to your neighborhood corner street Four-Square Church pastor and all the other superficial Easter Sunrise ceremonies carried out by New Age “Christians” to local “Christian Fellowship” sects. Who you think separated the various books into the “Books of the Bible”? The early Church Fathers.
So do you always create strawmen so you tear them down?
Where did I post “faith alone” or some of that other stuff you are tossing out? The thing is I didn’t and you are assuming a lot. If that makes you feel good or soothes your conscience, that fine. Ultimately your decisions will be judged by God and you have to live with them.
It is a very simple question and you avoided answering it directly...again. (Psst, you could just answer yes or no, but you decided to dodge and weave.)
Whatever “tickles your ears.” That’s between you and God.
Peace.
So show me where I “mangled” the Bible. I just pointed out that your interpretation of that verse wasn’t saying what you were implying. You disagree, fine. That’s between you and God, but I didn’t “mangle” anything.
I have answered very directly twice. I am sorry it it is not the answer you are seeking.
Peace be with you
John 6:53 NIV
Jesus said to them, “I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.”
Seems biblical to me.
Catholics theologians have for centuries beginning with the practice of the early disciples believed this was the foundation for the sacrament of confession. Indeed, the theological support for this is overwhelming.
http://www.catholicfaithandreason.org/confession-of-sins-—how-biblical-is-it.html
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