You wrote:
“I Corrected your statement.”
No you didn’t.
“That’s why I quoted DIRECTLY from Catholic dogma.”
The problem is not what you quoted, but what you claim it means. I got it right. You didn’t.
“Sorry, Jesus died for our sins, and cleansed us from them.”
And Purgatory doesn’t negate that. What powers Purgatory is Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross. There is no other origin of grace. That’s the whole point.
“He died on the cross with ALL of our sins upon Him, making purgatory unnecessary and in fact denies the sacrifice that Jesus made on the cross.”
False. Purgatory can only exist BECAUSE of Christ’s sacrifice on the cross. It doesn’t deny but actually wholeheartedly affirms it.
“Here is the quote FROM CATHOLIC teachings, I will “bold” the parts you seemed not to see:”
I did see the parts in bold the first time. The problem is not my eyesight but your interpretation. I got it right. You didn’t. That won’t change.
If we actually look at the document you’re quoting from we’ll see that you’re honesty is the same as Hunt’s.
Here’s the first sentence:
“The latter council described purgatory as a place where the souls of the dead make expiation “in the next life through fire and torments or purifying punishments.””
The claim made that “The latter council described purgatory as a place where the souls of the dead make expiation...” is false. The Council did not describe Purgator that way. The quote is actually lifted from a document on indulgences written two years after the Second Vatican Council ended. Hunt never cared about being accurate or precise. He was a bigot. That’s why on page 474 of his anti-Catholic book, A Woman Rides the Beast, (yes, I’ve read it and own a copy) he says (just look for footnote 1) that the quote is from Vatican II even though it is not. Again, facts don’t actually matter to bigots.
Here’s the actual passage from the original document:
2. The truth has been divinely revealed that sins are followed by punishments. God’s holiness and justice inflict them. Sins must be expiated. This may be done on this earth through the sorrows, miseries and trials of this life and, above all, through death. (3) Otherwise the expiation must be made in the next life through fire and torments or purifying punishments. (4) This is why the faithful have always been convinced that the paths of evil are strewn with many stumbling blocks. They bring to those who follow them adversities, bitterness and harm. (5).
Now back to the quote you posted:
“According to Vatican II, “in purgatory the souls of those ‘who died in the charity of God and truly repentant, but who had not made satisfaction with adequate penance for their sins and omissions’ are cleansed after death with punishments designed to purge away their debt.””
Well, again, there’s the problem of the quote not actually being from Vatican II. Vatican II ended in 1965. The quote is - apparently according to other sources - from 1967. Then again, Hunt always did this quoting within a quot thing and was so dishonest in his efforts that it is difficult to source what he claims anyway. See Flannery, Vol. 1 page 64 if you don’t believe me.
“The Catechism of the Catholic Church describes purgatory as place of “cleansing fire.”[1031]
Here Hunt get the Catechism number right, but leaves out the full quote because it says:
“1031 The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned. The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire:
“As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire. He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age nor in the age to come. From this sentence we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come.”
“Look it up.”
Did. Saw once again that Hunt is. . . er, WAS dishonest. Now he’s just dead.
“If you disagree with it, good.”
I disagree with Hunt’s dishonesty - his taking things out of context and his dishonest interpretation.
“Jesus already did that.”
No. What Jesus did was win forgiveness for us. Jesus did not purge your sinfulness on the Cross. He won forgiveness for us. We must still go to Him to have that forgiveness applied to us. This is why Protestants believe in “altar calls” to come to Jesus and ask for forgiveness. Have you never read Colossians 2:13-15 and 1 Cor. 15:1-4 or Hebrews 5:9 ? Jesus died for the forgiveness of our sins, but we must respond to His call to have that forgiveness applied to us and even maintained.
“Should I repeat it or can you read what Jesus did on the cross that I wrote above?”
Oh, I can read just fine. And that’s why I know the truth. You apparently don’t know the truth.
“LOL, Christians don’t go to purgatory upon death, they go right to be with Jesus.”
No. Most who go to Heaven will go through Purgatory first - because they’ll need to (Rev.21:27).
“(Dave Hunt did a great job exposing the fallacy of purgatory)”
No, his excellence seems to be in making a mockery of himself, showing himself to be a sciolist.
“I can give you the scriptures to confirm if you don’t know them.”
I know them - and I know the truth. It is clear you either don’t know them or don’t understand them.
I did no interpretations, nor did I quote from Dave Hunt at all.
I quoted from Catholic doctrine.
If you don’t accept it, fine it’s from your tradition.
I have no idea what Hunt quoted, like I said I quoted from official Catholic doctrine, with reference.
I took nothing out of context, and you keep beating up on Hunt, and then me for using his material. I didn’t. I used Catholic material.
I won’t waste my time on the rest of your jibber jabber (thanks Penny) as it would be just spinning wheels.
I get it you hate Hunt, and seem to like mentioning that he is dead.
Nice.
The point is that Jesus took our sins on the cross with Him, and He took ALL the punishment for them.
Purgatory denies that, not affirms His sacrifice.
Contrary to your beliefs, purgatory can NOT exist precisely BECAUSE of Christ’s sacrifice.
It’s nice to know that Jesus taking our sins settled it once and for all.
It seems you will continue to believe in the teachings of the belief system you are committed to, and maybe because of that God will allow you some punishment so you can feel better about what you believe.
I doubt it though, He loves you too much to have you endure what he already endured for you.