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Are Seminaries Putting Their Blue Days Behind Them?
The American Interest ^ | March 30. 2013 | Walter Russell Mead

Posted on 04/01/2013 9:23:05 AM PDT by JerseyanExile

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America’s mainline Protestant seminaries are in crisis, but so far they seem to be spending more energy dodging tough choices than preparing for the future. A recent article at Inside Higher Ed describes the enrollment collapse at Luther Seminary in St. Paul. Luther is one of the most important Lutheran seminaries in the country, but its status wasn’t enough to insulate it from the forces upending seminaries everywhere. Enrollment fell off sharply, and the institution ”was running multimillion-dollar deficits, spending down its endowment and relying on loans.”

The seminary’s response? It’s making some painful cuts, letting go of some staff and reducing the number of degree programs it offers. Luther isn’t alone; seminaries all over the country are facing tough choices.

In many cases, survival has required selling off property or losing independence. More seminarians enroll later in life than in the past, meaning that seminaries often don’t need buildings filled with dorms and apartments. Others have worked to develop online programs, requiring less of a physical footprint, and selling or leasing their additional facilities.

These may be steps in the right direction, but they are baby steps at the beginning of a very long march. Higher ed is in trouble in every branch of learning, but the crisis facing seminaries is worse than that facing any other professional degree program. Seminaries, and especially those serving mainline Protestant denominations, have to change faster than law school or PhD programs if they want to survive. And selling some property or firing some staff, though sadly necessary in many cases, is just the start to a wrenching period of transformative change.

In effect, these churches are clinging to the ministry model that dominated mainline churches in the 20th century. Seminary leaders act as if the average seminary grad will still earn an average salary in an average church, that that salary can still support the loan payments that keep tuition levels high enough to support a traditional seminary, and that denominations or rich believers can and will make up the difference between tuition and cost. These assumptions are almost certainly false.

As noted before, the modern American church, especially among mainline Protestants, but also to some degree among Catholics and evangelicals, got mixed up in the blue social model. The clergy became a ‘profession’ like the others. People pursued careers in the ministry, complete with grievance procedures and pension programs. Denominations built up regional and national organizations that were staffed with professional staff. Progress was seen as replacing volunteers with certified, graduate educated professionals: Directors of Sacred Music and Directors of Christian Education. People built lots of buildings they couldn’t afford to maintain. From an organization perspective, denominational bureaucracies were like GM and IBM in the 1950s and 1960: hierarchical, growing every year, and offering employees jobs for life.

Neither Jesus nor any of the twelve apostles could get a job in any self-respecting mainline church in America today; none of them had a degree from an accredited seminary.

So part of America’s contemporary religious crisis has to do with the decline and fall of this blue model church, and any solutions to that crisis need to involve creative ways of transitioning to a post-blue era. More and more mainline Protestant ministers can expect to be part time or volunteer. The traditional denominations (each with a network of expensive seminaries and bureaucracies) will have to consolidate. Church bureaucrats will largely need to disappear.

This means that seminaries will have to change much more fundamentally than firing a few professors or selling off some dorms. Christianity is going to have to be more of a mission and less of a profession in the future. It may be that future ministers will learn the trade the way Peter learned from Jesus and Timothy from Paul: they watch the masters at work, and start their own pastoring careers under the supervision of someone they respect.

It’s not surprising that most seminaries and denominational bureaucracies would rather think about anything than the collapse of their business models. But rethinking the way the churches work is an essential part of the mission of Christian leaders today, and their failure to engage bespeaks a much broader failure to grasp the challenges of our times.

Pivoting off of the Inside Higher Ed piece, Rod Dreher asks about possible solutions to the wider troubles facing US seminaries. He writes:

What liberal Christians will say is, “Be more liberal!” What conservative Christians will say is, “Be more conservative!” Neither strategy seems suited to the nature of this crisis.

Dreher is completely right that the problems facing seminaries aren’t just theological. And it’s more than a question of budgets; penny-pinching won’t see them through the storm. It’s time for new leaders with vision and imagination to take the church beyond the blue. Since the colonial era, the genius of American Christianity has lain in the ability of new generations of Christian leaders to reinvent institutions, find an authentic theological stance and voice that appeals to each new generation, and put Christianity in the forefront of individual lives and social challenges from age to age.

Theology can be debated; liberal, conservative, protestant, catholic, fundamentalist, modernist. There is much to be said for each of these positions, and the debates need to continue.

But there’s a much more critical difference: the difference between life and death. There is a lot of dead wood in American Christian institutions today, and the carters are coming to clear it away.


TOPICS: General Discusssion; Mainline Protestant; Ministry/Outreach
KEYWORDS: catholic; christianschools; elca; highereducation; lutherans; priesthood; religiousleft; seminary; trends
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To: spirited irish; YHAOS; Alamo-Girl
For over two hundred years, nihilist philosophies have been working their way through our culture, embedding themselves, often unconsciously, within our psyches.

Indeed, dear spirited. Such nihilist philosophies would include metaphysical naturalism and positivism. They argue that anything which is not material or physical, and therefore unavailable to direct observation, simply does not exist.

Spirit is banished from the world; God is banished. But when one loses God and Spirit, one loses one's own humanity as well. And Nietzsche is an excellent case in point.

Just consider his statements, which you quote:

“We have killed him (God), you and I! ...But how have we done it? How were we able to drink up the sea? Who gave us the sponge to wipe away the whole horizon? What did we do when we loosened this earth from its sun? Whither does it now move? Whither do we move? ...Do we not dash on unceasingly? Backwards, sideways, forwards, in all directions? Is there still an above and below? Do we not stray...through infinite nothingness? Does not empty space breathe upon us? ...Does not night come on continually, darker and darker?”

This is the ultimate statement of human hubris: That the thrilling, long-anticipated emancipation/liberation of man cannot occur until God and His Law is "dead." So we must "kill him." It is an advertisement, not only for nihilism, but also for personal self-immolation in madness and chaos, which can extend to whole societies.

Of course, these statements indicate that Nietzsche is very well aware of the existence of God; otherwise he wouldn't have to "kill him." They also indicate that he is aware of God as (among other things) the ultimate organizational principle of the universe, Who, when "killed" leaves man spinning helplessly in a shapeless, inchoate, purposeless VOID forever.

Nietzsche is widely regarded as a very great literary artist. Certainly his poetry is arresting!

But I ask you, what SANE person could live in the post-God world he describes in these passages and not lose his mind, his reason, his ability to function rationally in society and the world?

Certainly, Nietzsche couldn't do it: He died a raving lunatic in an insane asylum (complications of syphilis).

I would hardly cite him as a role model of sound human living.

I have pretty much come to the conclusion that to "kill God" destroys all at once one's own humanity. And testifies that man has failed, not God.

Just some thoughts, dear sister in Christ! Thank you ever so much for your splendid essay/post!

61 posted on 04/14/2013 1:04:35 PM PDT by betty boop (We are led to believe a lie when we see with, and not through the eye. — William Blake)
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To: JerseyanExile

I doubt if their “Pink Days” will ever be behind them.

(See “Good Bye, Good Men”)

http://www.amazon.com/Goodbye-Good-Men-Liberals-Corruption/dp/0895261448


62 posted on 04/14/2013 1:09:52 PM PDT by miserare
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To: jeannineinsd

I knew the ELCA was in trouble a few years ago when I read an online discussion by their leadership about “re-branding”! When you start talking about ministry as a commercial product, it’s all over.

Money-Changers in the Temple? You betcha!


63 posted on 04/14/2013 1:15:57 PM PDT by miserare
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To: YHAOS; Jacquerie; Alamo-Girl
Progressives will tolerate the behavior of Islamic lunatics as long as it aids in the destruction of America, under the belief that they can eventually bring Sharia under their control. The inevitable conflict will be interesting.

A most penetrating insight, dear YHAOS!

But the looney Left will never succeed in bringing Muzzie lunatics under their control. That's a complete misreading of the situation....

The Left is working hand-in-glove with CAIR et al. So if there are folks who want to rescue America from the impending Sharia-denominated Ummah, they will have to be folks of the Right.

A friend sent me an interesting e-mail today touching on this subject. Quote:

Prime Minister Julia Gillard — Australia:

Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia, as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks.

Separately, Gillard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying she supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques. Quote:

"IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It.

"I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali, we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians.

"This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom.

"We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society ... Learn the language!

"Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.

"We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us.

"This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom, 'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'.

"If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted.'"

Anyone saying such a thing in America today would instantly become the target of a firestorm of charges of INTOLERANCE!!!! (From CAIR and the Left, of course.)

But then the Left has a bad habit of using "double-speak," in this case to disguise the fact that the real INTOLERANCE is coming from hegemonic Islam of the Salafist type.

Can we take a page from the Aussies???

64 posted on 04/14/2013 1:27:18 PM PDT by betty boop (We are led to believe a lie when we see with, and not through the eye. — William Blake)
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To: betty boop; Jacquerie; Alamo-Girl
Thanks for the comeback.

There will likely be, I think, a second interesting conflict over the carcass of America, once Liberals discover they can control neither the Islamic lunatics, nor the Hispanic looters they have unleashed on America. And that will be the conflict between the looters (Hispanics, but also both Black and other White Liberal Thugs) and the Islamic Lunatics.

I could get into trouble speaking so forthrightly, but, like Gillard, I am tired of worrying about offending hostile cultures which harbor nothing but hatred and loathing towards a culture that has brought more benefit to Mankind than any other.

65 posted on 04/14/2013 3:26:00 PM PDT by YHAOS
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To: stfassisi; YHAOS; Alamo-Girl; Jacquerie; spirited irish; marron
Separation of Church and State was the death blow to this country.

Oh, I don't believe that at all, dear brother in Christ!

To me, the "separation of Church and State" is the secular analogue of Jesus' command to "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's, and unto God what is God's." The First Amendment to the Constitution very faithfully defends this principle, clearly stating that "Congress (i.e., the State) shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion (i.e., the Church), or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

A terrific example of what goes wrong when the State and Religion are not kept distinct from each other is Islam. One can argue the same with respect to Nazi Germany; in both cases, State and Religion are inseparably blended.

The closest thing we Americans have to "holy writ" is the Declaration of Independence, a necessarily secular document — because America is not a Church, it is not a theology; it is a State organized first and foremost to protect the God-given liberties of the human individuals who compose it, of whatever religious commitments they may have, or even no religious commitment at all.

The DoI recognizes the Creator God who creates human individuals in whom He endues certain unalienable rights that no just State may pass laws against, interfere with, or revoke: LIFE, LIBERTY, and the PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS that life and liberty make possible. The entire federal Constitution that We the People ordained and established — to secure the God-given unalienable rights which are the hallmarks of human nature as created by God, "for the benefit of ourselves and our posterity" — is based on this understanding.

This is not a religious dogma; it is the simple recognition of "self-evident truths" about the human nature that God created that all people of the Founding generation believed. The truths are "'self-evident" because they flow from God and His Laws.

All the crimes of our society today have occurred not because the Constitution has been "successful" in operation; rather they stem from the fact that elites in our society have determined that the Constitution is a dead letter. It is simply ignored by our political class, and is the target for destruction of the hounds of Hell that go by name of Left Progressives....

On my reading, Roe v. Wade is blatantly unconstitutional, because it denies there is a right to Life. The federal income tax (to me) is also unconstitutional, because it is little more than a license to impoverish the People under the color of law (not to mention that it trashes the principle of "equal protection" set forth in the Fourteenth amendment; plus then laughably tells us that the payment of tax is "voluntary." Of course, if you don't "volunteer," your assets will be seized and you will go to jail).

"Same sex marriage" is just a ploy to change the meaning of the very word "marriage." IMHO, marriage is none of the federal government's business anyway. And so forth and so on....

We live in mendacious, corrupt times. If we had simply stuck with the wisdom of the Framers and the Constitution they wrote — which is premised on a divine Creator God and His relations with His human children, and their relations to each other — we'd probably come as close to Justice in this world as is possible for mortal men.

God has blessed America — I pray He will not abandon us now. May He empower the "saving remnant" who are the people of Spirit and Faith and Hope and Love in Christ, that this nation "may not perish from this earth."

And may God bless you, dear stfassisi!

66 posted on 04/14/2013 4:11:49 PM PDT by betty boop (We are led to believe a lie when we see with, and not through the eye. — William Blake)
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To: YHAOS
There will likely be, I think, a second interesting conflict over the carcass of America . . .

So true. Obama and his rat/muzzie brothers foment violence.

Rambling rant follows.

Team Obama would love nothing more than a rural uprising. For once, he would use legitimate Constitutional power to suppress rebellion. Recall recent stories of misunderstood urban yutes. There is his reserve army to bash white heads. My point here is that armed resistance would be gleefully put down in the harshest manner. Survivors should expect permanent summer camp run by the Black Panthers.

As Mark Levin regularly reminds us, reform will not emerge from Washington. If we are to peacefully save what remains of our freedoms and regain what was lost, it is time for the States to call an Article V Constitutional Convention. If Congress does not head it off on its own to consider a single amendment, repeal of the 17th, we have little to lose. Our consolidated government ignores our unalienable rights, separation of powers and is arming itself to put down mass confrontation. If Congress ignores the threat and the States convene a convention, we risk no more than where we are already headed, a consolidated government of unlimited powers bent on creating a perfect social justice Utopian hell.

We have the means to save our society and lives; means that were not available in 1775. Let’s use them. Together, with the help of God, we just might save these United States.

67 posted on 04/14/2013 4:31:27 PM PDT by Jacquerie (How few were left who had seen the republic! - Tacitus, The Annals)
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To: betty boop; thouworm

I’m a bit late to the party, so please forgive me for jumping in at this point, without having read the thread or previous comments...but I do have to say this:

I first saw that statement attributed to Prime Minister Howard, and he hasn’t been Prime Minister for a very long time, I wish it were true, but it’s been repeated so often it’s taken on a life of its own.

There’s no way Julia Gillard said that. When it first appeared, I wrote to the website that published it, but never heard back. Treat it as a joke, it’s not real.


68 posted on 04/14/2013 4:46:44 PM PDT by Fred Nerks (Come visit Tasmania!)
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To: Fred Nerks; YHAOS; Jacquerie; Alamo-Girl; spirited irish
Thanks for writing Fred Nerks to point out the text I quoted was very likely a hoax. Sigh. Maybe so. I've written to my friend asking for a cite.

You wrote, "I wish it were true, but...."

Well, other than uncertainty about its authorship, I'd say the text is certainly "true enough" — content-wise, I mean.

Thanks again for writing!

69 posted on 04/14/2013 5:05:35 PM PDT by betty boop (We are led to believe a lie when we see with, and not through the eye. — William Blake)
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To: Jacquerie

I fear a hundred year’s war that will make the War of the Roses seem like a day at the beach. Hope I’m wrong.


70 posted on 04/14/2013 5:09:32 PM PDT by YHAOS
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To: YHAOS; Alamo-Girl; Fred Nerks
I am tired of worrying about offending hostile cultures which harbor nothing but hatred and loathing towards a culture that has brought more benefit to Mankind than any other.

Dear brother in Christ, the Muzzies don't care about "benefitting Mankind." They are only interested in making slaves for Allah.

I wish more people could get this clear in their minds: We are not dealing with "friendlies" here. Such folk despise America and everything she stands for....

They take the long view; and their endgame is either to kill us or convert us.

It really is that simple.

Thanks so much for writing, dear YHAOS!

71 posted on 04/14/2013 5:12:35 PM PDT by betty boop (We are led to believe a lie when we see with, and not through the eye. — William Blake)
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To: YHAOS

Perhaps you don’t realize that the damage is already done and the answers I offered for a better world were solutions to what should have been done.

Don’t take this a criticism, dear Friend. But,there is nothing that you or I can do that is going to change the world(we can only change hearts of minorities of people during these times)until Christ comes again.

We should speak out against things like abortion, pornography etc... and we should expect to be persecuted for this, like Christ was persecuted.

We keep trying in full understanding of loving goodness to the point where we can drink our persecution like water.


72 posted on 04/14/2013 5:36:11 PM PDT by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
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To: betty boop; Alamo-Girl; Fred Nerks; Jacquerie
the Muzzies don't care about “benefitting Mankind.” They are only interested in making slaves for Allah.

Of some things (many things), boop, I think we are all of the same mind. It’s not just Moslems who are interested in making slaves (ultimate for their own purposes ~ not for “Allah”). The world seems to be full of Marxist/Socialist tyrants (ChiComs, “Progressives,” dictators, government officials and many of our own Representatives and Senators, other thugs of various descriptions, ad infinitum) who engage in little but hatching various schemes to harness the efforts and the wealth of members of society for the benefit of other members of society (and ultimately for their own benefit).

It was Jefferson who encapsulated the rebellion against the tyranny of Man, when he wrote for a whole generation of people sick of the old world order; “all men are created equal and endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights . . . ” The most famous words since the words of Christ.

The din and scandal has not ceased since . . . from either.

Thanks for the comeback.

73 posted on 04/14/2013 5:52:53 PM PDT by YHAOS
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To: betty boop

Dear Sister,

The US set themselves up as a Church even though you don’t seem to realize this.

I have shown you in past conversations that separation of Church and State is condemned by the Catholic Church

The self evident truths you speak of without being defined can mean anything. Open your eyes and admit this system failed because of no defined truths. If these truths were defined in line with true Christian truths this country would be a better place.

One example is our US laws US protects the porn industry, these are not God given rights and not liberty at all. I can name many examples

Listen carefully to the worsd of Saint Hilary of Poiters. It can easily be applied to the hope and foundation of this country....

‘But nowadays, we have to do with a disguised persecutor, a smooth-tongued enemy, a Constantius who has put on Antichrist; who scourges us, not with lashes, but with caresses who instead of robbing us, which would give us spiritual life, bribes us with riches, that he may lead us to eternal death; who thrusts us not into the liberty of a prison, but into the honours of his palace, that he may enslave us: who tears not our flesh, but our hearts; who beheads not with a sword, but kills the soul with his gold; who sentences not by a herald that we are to be burnt, but covertly enkindles the fire of hell against us. He does not dispute with us, that he may conquer; but he flatters us, that so he may lord it over our souls. He confesses Christ, the better to deny him; he tries to procure a unity which shall destroy peace; he puts down some few heretics, so that he may also crush the Christians; he honours Bishops, that they may cease to be Bishops; he builds up Churches, that he may pull down the Faith”” -Saint Hilary of Poiters


74 posted on 04/14/2013 5:58:51 PM PDT by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
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To: betty boop
I have pretty much come to the conclusion that to "kill God" destroys all at once one's own humanity. And testifies that man has failed, not God.

SO very true, dearest sister in Christ, thank you for sharing your insights!

75 posted on 04/14/2013 9:12:54 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: betty boop; YHAOS
Indeed. It is absurd for the Leftists to think they can any compromise whatsoever with Islam.
76 posted on 04/14/2013 9:16:57 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: betty boop
God has blessed America — I pray He will not abandon us now. May He empower the "saving remnant" who are the people of Spirit and Faith and Hope and Love in Christ, that this nation "may not perish from this earth."

Amen!!!

77 posted on 04/14/2013 9:21:39 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: stfassisi
the answers I offered for a better world were solutions to what should have been done.

I quite agree that it is rather late in the game for Western Civilization, and that much of our discussion would have likely revolved around what should have been done (or, perhaps in the case of my participation, what should not have been done), and that a continuation would have likely been somewhat pointless.

78 posted on 04/15/2013 9:46:48 AM PDT by YHAOS
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To: betty boop

From the late Bishop Fulton Sheen..

John Winthrop promised a “New City”; Whitman, Holmes and Thoreau described man in a state of innocence; Franklin wanted the Seal of the United States to be Moses dividing the Red Sea, showing how much we had departed from the traditions of Europe; Jefferson suggested the seal be the cloud by day and the pillar of fire by night by which the children of the New Israel were led to the Promised Land. America was the land of milk and honey; its Frontiers were illimitable — they could be pushed back and back, revealing new lands, buried gold and unlimited freedom.

The Myth of the natural goodness of man gave the assurance of an ever-increasing progress. If a man did not become wealthy, it was because he was lazy. Cream naturally comes to the top, scum sinks to the bottom. The ethic of work glorified for us the Great American Dream that one had only to dig. Progress was an ever ascending curve: it was only the past that had to be left behind.

Then the dream changed into a nightmare because our assumptions were all wrong. The dream was a reaction against European religious thought at the time of our Founding Fathers that man is intrinsically wicked. But the great religious traditions of the age never taught that man was evil, but only that his intellect was darkened and his will weakened by rebellion against God. Hence, newly found America could not be a Paradise where man could dream of unbounded wealth. Man is a weak creature whether you put him in a new United States or on the moon. But the silly notion that he is a god and America is a paradise is like trying to place a marble bust on the stem of a rose.

Politicians during election time, capitalists who have made quick fortunes in oil and psychologists who blame environment rather than an evil will for the drug anti-culture still subscribe to the American Dream. And by doing so, they contribute to the Nightmare which we are now entering.

The more you build up the expectations of a boy about the pleasure he will get from a toy, the angrier he will be when the toy breaks down. Telling youth that “America is greening” only angers them when they find it browning in the Winter of its discontent. Unbounded pride or what the Greek dramatist called ‘Hubris’, has in the second act brought a judgment and in the third act a fear of ‘Ate’ or disaster.

In this Hour of Frustration when we transfer 125 billion dollars a year to the oil producing nations, which is equal to the entire farm crop of the U.S. in one year; when over eight per cent of the population is unemployed; when our manners become crude and only our gasoline refined; when we have the feeling we have touched the Last Frontier and yet unlike mice in a maze keep knocking our heads against it; when we are forced to get along with less — when all these evidences of a broken dream are upon us, some try to drug the public conscience by telling them that Progress is still with us provided: First, we get rid of God; second, we preserve the right to climb into any bed; and third, that we be allowed to make money by pornography.

What has happened is for the best. We have learned that a man’s greatness does not depend on what he has, but on the recognition of limits. The moment we discover discipline, or the ability to limit our ego, our greatness surpasses anything in the past.

-†- Fulton J. Sheen


79 posted on 04/20/2013 7:14:56 PM PDT by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
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To: stfassisi; Alamo-Girl; YHAOS; TXnMA; MHGinTN; metmom; hosepipe; spirited irish
The Myth of the natural goodness of man gave the assurance of an ever-increasing progress.

The Framers did NOT believe in "the natural goodness of man." That's why they provided for a form of government in three separate but equal branches that could check each other....

As James Madison wrote in The Federalist:

“If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary. In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself. A dependence on the people is, no doubt, the primary control on the government; but experience has taught mankind the necessity of auxiliary precautions.”

I'm sorry I have no time to write right now — though your recent posts have been much in my mind. My father passed away last Tuesday, at age 92 after a long illness. I'm engrossed in funeral preparations just now. But will write again as soon as I can.

God's blessings be with you!

80 posted on 04/22/2013 8:38:15 AM PDT by betty boop (We are led to believe a lie when we see with, and not through the eye. — William Blake)
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