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To: UCANSEE2; cuban leaf; All
That a burial cloth over 2000 years old survived this long is pretty amazing.

Amazing but certainly not impossible, nor unprecedented. We have the cloth grave-wrappings and clothing of mummies from Egypt that are 3,000+ years old.

Since the shroud would of only been in contact with Jesus' body for 3 days...and then carefully retrieved and stored ever since (never wrapped around a rotting body in a damp grave)--not all that amazing or suprising....IF you accept fact of the resurrection of Christ.

Key in determining the authenticy of historic relics--is proving a reasonable provenance, or chain of ownership/title--documented-in-writing--through the centuries.

The shroud DOES have that provenance for the last 700 years--and then another chain of ownership--written about--dating back into ancient times. There is a gap--where a plausible hypothesis is that it was hidden in a wall (where the knight from 700 years ago says he found it). Thing is though there is actcually artwork of it--pre-dating the gap.

The shroud is unique, one long sheet of cloth, with an image front and back. Oddly enough, the only way you can see a clear 3D image of it, is in the photographic negative--to the naked eye the image is very faded and uncertain. And of course even the idea of negative images....only dates to the 1800s and the invention of photography. Why would a medieval forger create a 3D image...that no one could see clearly...for another 600 years?

Shroud to the eye on the left, in photo-negative on the right...

Another evidence: ALL medieval images of Jesus crucified...(crucifixes) have nails going through His palms. Only in recent times was it discovered that unless a person's arms are tied by rope, nails through the palms will not hold the weight... In order to crucify someone with just nails (as the Gospels say) they must be nailed through the wrist or forarm. In Greek, the language the NT was written in, the word for "hand" includes the wrist and forearm. The shroud...definitely from at least 700 years ago, shows blood stains from wounds in the wrists NOT the palms. How would a medieval forger know the wrists were used...and even if he did why would he create a forgery, contradicting all of what was known of crucifixion in his day?

There are literally dozens of factoids like that about the shroud. None is utterly conclusive--but neither is any historical evidence supporting the Bible. As with everything, God really does seem to require faith...

Whether the shroud of Turin is a fake or not--doesn't affect the truths of the New Testament...still it is pretty amazing, and I think even supportive and helpful...to people of faith.

53 posted on 03/30/2013 12:27:45 PM PDT by AnalogReigns (because the real world is not digital...)
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To: AnalogReigns

Note the wounds in the wrists, NOT the palms. Also the 3D nature of the image--in all detail--only being clear in the negative, not the positive.

54 posted on 03/30/2013 12:37:43 PM PDT by AnalogReigns (because the real world is not digital...)
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To: AnalogReigns

Thank you for the response, and the information.


57 posted on 03/30/2013 1:30:15 PM PDT by UCANSEE2 (The monsters are due on Maple Street)
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To: AnalogReigns

The nails in the wrists, rather than the palms, was one that I always found fascinating. Then again, if it is a forgery, at the time it was forged it may be that the forger knew it was wrists and not palms. But the negative image part is rather interesting as well.

It reminds me of one of the proofs of Christianity in general. That is, if someone was making it up, then in the time of Jesus’ resurrection, nobody would use WOMEN as the witnesses. It would have been male centric.


59 posted on 03/30/2013 5:53:03 PM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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