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To: RobbyS; Iscool; HarleyD
"She was the means by which God entered history."

Okay, that is one of the most stunted views of God's activity that I have come across. If this is the party line, no wonder the Roman cult is disheveled. "God entered history" through Mary? You are not serious.

God created the heavens and earth by the word of His power, from an act of His will. There was no universe before He acted and He is acting at all moments to sustain the universe. Should He take His mind off this whole enterprise, it would not grind to a halt...it would not exist. To say He entered history through Mary makes Him a bit player in a cheap school play...and this is precisely the way the RCC treats Him. The Roman organization is pre-eminent; God enters through a woman? Please.

Mary is just a human pawn in His hands the way Isaiah, or Moses was. She was given a role and nothing more. She was favored to be the bearer of Jesus entering physically when it came time to provide the Lamb of God, but He had "entered" a billion times before in other forms. He was likely the angel who wrestled with Jacob. He was likely the form which Moses saw walk in front of him. He was likely the One speaking with Adam (Let US make man in our image). After all, no man has seen the Father and lived, right?

The idolatry of the RCC is destructive and wrongheaded, but it is just another expression of the errors of Rome. This thread originally began with the problem of Semi-Pelagianism, a clear error widely held by the RCC today, irrespective of what they claim is official doctrine. Much of so-called Protestantism suffers from it, also. Read Iscool's & HarleyD's posts. They nail it.

88 posted on 03/30/2013 8:36:57 AM PDT by Dutchboy88
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To: Dutchboy88

“Mary was a pawn.” Well that is the most stunted description of human being that I have ever seen, but it fits Calvin’s lower opinion of human nature. It is so low it reminds me of the Mesopotamian of man as the slave of the gods. When the Lord emptied himself of his divinity and took the form of a slave, he did not diminish Mary but exaulted her. To her as to the Father he gave the obedience owed her. Irenaeus—writing long before Constabntine—described her as the New Eve, and I hope you do not disregard Scripture by forgetting that looked upon her as a daughter. Eve disobeyed and with her humanity “fell” but not into the same pit as Lucifer but to a place where Jesus might descend to claim them to himself. And First of all, the maid of Galilee.


89 posted on 03/30/2013 1:14:49 PM PDT by RobbyS
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To: Dutchboy88; RobbyS; Iscool
"She was the means by which God entered history."

And that statement is a rather weird statement to make. I would suspect that RobbyS would agree that God doesn't "enter" history. He is the Alpha and Omaga...the first and the last. He is history (to paraphrase Indiana Jones) as well as our future.

The veneration of Mary is simply another excuse for worshipping someone other than God. Bowing in front of statues, lighting candles to images, praying to other things than God, etc. are forbidden time and again by the scriptures. The veneration of Mary is not any difference than veneration of Baal.

91 posted on 03/30/2013 1:53:55 PM PDT by HarleyD
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