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To: daniel1212

[[You cannot restrict “true miracles” to restoring life at a command, restoring use of limbs, eyesight, etc. though i believe these happen to a lesser degree]]

“To a lesser degree’? So Christ has weakened i nHis miracle workign power? Not tryign to be snide or anything- but of course we can test whether God is doing true miracles today or not- and of course we can use the same criteria for TRUE miracles that was applied during Christ’s tiome and before- Christ’s miracles wer such that NOONE could question that a TRUE miracle had happened- and Christ’s miracles were very specifically Jewish oriented so that NO Jew coudl Deny He was the Messiah- and the apostle’s miracles were meant for the same purposes- to prove to the Jews that Christ was who He said He was and that through Christ- they were empowered to perform those same Types of TRUE miracles

[[And to disallow God from doing miracles would be to allow the devil to claim supremacy of power.]]

I never disallowed God anyhting- He is perfectly able to do TRUE mriacles anytime He chooses- and it’;s obvious He has ceased with these SUPERNATURAL TRUE miracles for the tiem being

When Christ performed His miracles- they were absolutely without question TRUE miracles- not somethign hidden liek a sore back, or supposed headaches- His miracles were for show for the Jews- they didn’t have to ever wodner “Well, hmmm, that could have been simply a spontanious remission due to the power of sugfgestion- His miracles were frotn and center for all to witness and know without a shadow of a doubt that soemthign supernatural had just taken place


119 posted on 03/29/2013 12:11:30 AM PDT by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: CottShop; metmom
To a lesser degree’? So Christ has weakened i nHis miracle workign power? Not tryign to be snide or anything

You are being worse than snide, as you simply refuse to believe any testimonies of any such today, however rare, while ignoring that the spiritual declension and degree of unbelief of the church - with your help and mine- limits God.

"And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them. " (Mark 6:5)

Thus according to your theology Christ was weak, but which is a ignorant conclusion.

Christ’s miracles wer such that NOONE could question that a TRUE miracle had happened

They should not, and He exceeded all in power, yet miracles are not restricted to multiplying loaves, while if you have ever contended with atheists today you should know that they usually will not even allow as a possibility that miracles occur, as you contend now, or dismiss the credibility of all those who testify of them, as you do, or attribute natural causes to miracles, which you also must, and that extraordinary things can occur in nature, or would argue that the dead who were raised were not really dead, etc.

it’;s obvious He has ceased with these SUPERNATURAL TRUE miracles for the tiem being

What is obvious you are either ignorant or refuse to believe any testimonies of such. Again, here are many which you cannot (well, you can if you want) all dismiss as being consistent with the normal laws of nature. And if miracles do not occur then the new birth does not, and God took a sabbatical He never said He would take.

I cannot claim to have the gift of working miracles, (1Cor. 12:10,28,29) but years ago when i witnessing in the subway system, offering gospel tracts, i saw a thin man at the phone book who was obviously distressed. He had a page of newspaper in one hand and keep making phone calls and frantically writing numbers down on the side of it. So I walked over and offered him a gospel tract, but he declined and expressed he HAD to find a drug detox and went back to dialing numbers. I told him i wanted to pray for him, and he assented, and so i put my hand on his shoulder and humbly prayed to God in Jesus' name to have mercy on the man and deliver him.

When i finished, he calmly hung up the receiver and with a radical change in countenance he looked me in the eye and said, "I don't know what you did sir, but whatever you did it worked," and how different he felt. He left the phone and walked with me as i explained his real need (for salvation).

And as i found out that he had to wait till tomorrow to get in the only detox that he had found that would take him, i offered to let him stay where i was, being a guest myself, and on the train he was still in a state of wonder, repeating again,as he "i don't know what you did..." to which i again replied, "if anyone did anything it was God, not me," and how he needed to turn to Christ.

The man was very sincere, not your typical homeless man, and was still expressing bewilderment at the change that occurred in him. The man definitely was not delivered because of his faith! Back at the place i stay, we offered him food and he could not believe he could eat normally, or even keep food down, and we talked and witnessed to him. He slept fine on the couch and the next day was still normal, but he had been accepted at the detox and still wanted to go with the program, although I warned him that he did not need to, but i cannot give faith or force belief. And Jesus healed people who would not follow Him at that time.

I can add to this the many many testimonies of answered prayer for things which rationally cannot be all attributed to natural causes or coincidence, as well as trials of long continuance that try faith, teach character,or chastise.

126 posted on 03/29/2013 6:21:51 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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