Who; ME???
Posted on 03/23/2013 4:02:56 PM PDT by Colofornian
SNIP
Surely we must appear at times to be very amateurish when compared to the professional clergy of other churches.
One doctrine presents a particular challenge. It is our firm conviction that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is...“the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth.” (D&C 1:30)
This doctrine often generates resistance and repels the casual investigator.
Some have said, “We want nothing to do with anyone who makes so presumptuous a claim as that.”
The early Latter-day Saints were...the butt of many clever stories. We, of course, are not free from that today.
Should we not then make one accommodation and set this doctrine aside?
SNIP
It is little wonder that our missionaries are sometimes thought to be overbearing...
SNIP
Inevitably...the “true church” doctrine emerges very early in any serious discussion of the gospel, for there is no better place to start such a discussion than with the First Vision...
Joseph Smith sought answer to the question “which of all the sects was right…and which…should [he] join?” (JS—H 1:18.)...
...In response to his humble prayer, the Father and the Son appeared to him. When he gained possession of himself so as to be able to speak, he asked “which of all the sects was right, that [he] might know which to join.” (JS—H 1:18.)
He recorded this:
“I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt...'
“He again forbade me to join with any of them.” (JS—H 1:19–20.)
That is very blunt language...
If ever he was tempted to disregard those words, they were repeated and sustained in subsequent revelations...
(Excerpt) Read more at lds.org ...
...a TOTAL trust in their teacher...
https://www.lds.org/pages/mormon-messages?lang=eng#gods-truths-even-a-child-can-understand
Might be the wrong person to ask...
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Jesus Christ is God’s Son, spiritually and physically. He calls Him Father, He prays to Him. Santorum endorses one-time rival Romney
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I just HATE when evidence of that kinda stuff is shown!
Eliza was a devout Mormon.
At age 38, she became Joseph Smith's 14th plural wife (in addition to Smith's lawful wife, Emma).
In 1842, after learning Eliza was pregnant, Emma Smith beat Eliza with a broomstick and
knocked her down a flight of stairs, causing Eliza to miscarry Smith's baby.
Miss Eliza R. Snow was one of the first (willing) victims of Joseph in Nauvoo. She used to be much at the prophet’s house he made her one of his celestial brides... . Feeling outraged as a wife and betrayed as a friend, Emma is currently reported as having had recourse to a vulgar broomstick as an instrument of revenge: and the harsh treatment received at Emma’s hands is said to have destroyed Eliza’s hopes of becoming the mother of a prophet’s son (Dr. W. Wyl, Mormon Portraits, 1886, pp.57-58).
The Mormon writer Claire Noall acknowledged: “Willard realized that Emma had refused to believe that any of the young women boarding at the Mansion when it was first used as a hotel had been married to Joseph. She had struck Eliza Snow at the head of the stairs, and Eliza, it was whispered, had lost her unborn child” (Intimate Disciple, a Portrait of Willard Richards, 1957, p.407).
Sometime during February of 1843 Emma evidently became aware that Joseph had taken her best friend, Eliza R. Snow, as a plural wife. Eliza was currently living in the Smith home, which housed a number of boarders. LDS historians Linda Newell and Valeen Avery wrote:
When the full realization of the relationship between her friend Eliza and her husband Joseph came to her, Emma was stunned. . . . Although no contemporary account of the incident between Emma and Eliza remains extant, evidence leads to the conclusion that some sort of physical confrontation occurred between the two women. In 1886 Wilhelm Wyl published the first known version of the incident in his book, Joseph Smith the Prophet: His Family and His Friends:
They say . . . there is scarcely a Mormon unacquainted with the fact that Sister Emma . . . soon found out the little compromise arranged between Joseph and Eliza. Feeling outraged as a wife and betrayed as a friend, Emma is currently reported as having had recourse to a vulgar broomstick as an instrument of revenge; and the harsh treatment received at Emma’s hands is said to have destroyed Eliza’s hopes of becoming the mother of a prophet’s son...
Another story, attributed to LeRoi C. Snow, Eliza’s nephew, is an oral family tradition that tells of Emma knocking Eliza down the stairs with a broom, the fall resulting in a miscarriage for Eliza. . . .
Whether Eliza fell down the stairs or whether Emma pushed her or pulled her down by the hair, or whether Emma only turned her out of the house, the result seems to be documented in Eliza’s terse journal entry for February 11, 1843:
‘Took board and had my lodging removed to the residence of br. [Jonathan] Holmes.’
Eliza did not make another entry in her journal for five weeks and wrote no explanation for either the gap in her diary or her abrupt departure from Emma’s home. . . .
Several acquaintances of Eliza spoke of Emma discovering Eliza’s relationship with Joseph, leading to her departure.
The incident between Emma and Eliza forced the issue of plural marriage into the open. Emma could no longer believe that Joseph was not involved, and he could no longer deny it. Emma had not acted with violence before; now her determined opposition might show up again with unexpected force. Joseph resolutely tried to bring Emma around (Mormon Enigma: Emma Hale Smith, by Linda King Newell and Valeen Tippetts Avery, 1994, pp. 134-137).
http://www.utlm.org/newsletters/no106.htm
The great I am can do ANYTHING he wants!!
1 Thus the heaven and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2 And on the seventh day I, God, ended my work, and all things which I had made; and I rested on the seventh day from all my work, and all things which I had made were finished, and I, God, saw that they were good;
3 And I, God, blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it; because that in it I had rested from all my work which I, God, had created and made.
4 And now, behold, I say unto you, that these are the generations of the heaven and of the earth, when they were created, in the day that I, the Lord God, made the heaven and the earth,
5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew. For I, the Lord God, created all things, of which I have spoken, spiritually, before they were naturally upon the face of the earth. For I, the Lord God, had not caused it to rain upon the face of the earth. And I, the Lord God, had created all the children of men; and not yet a man to till the ground; for in heaven created I them; and there was not yet flesh upon the earth, neither in the water, neither in the air;
6 But I, the Lord God, spake, and there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
7 And I, the Lord God, formed man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul, the first flesh upon the earth, the first man also; nevertheless, all things were before created; but spiritually were they created and made according to my word.
8 And I, the Lord God, planted a garden eastward in Eden, and there I put the man whom I had formed.
9 And out of the ground made I, the Lord God, to grow every tree, naturally, that is pleasant to the sight of man; and man could behold it. And it became also a living soul. For it was spiritual in the day that I created it; for it remaineth in the sphere in which I, God, created it, yea, even all things which I prepared for the use of man; and man saw that it was good for food. And I, the Lord God, planted the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and also the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
10 And I, the Lord God, caused a river to go out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.
11 And I, the Lord God, called the name of the first Pison, and it compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where I , the Lord God, created much gold;
12 And the gold of that land was good, and there was bdellium and the onyx stone.
13 And the name of the second river was called Gihon; the same that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.
14 And the name of the third river was Hiddekel; that which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river was the Euphrates.
15 And I, the Lord God, took the man, and put him into the Garden of Eden, to dress it, and to keep it.
16 And I, the Lord God, commanded the man, saying: Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat,
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it, nevertheless, thou mayest choose for thyself, for it is given unto thee; but, remember that I forbid it, for in the day thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
18 And I, the Lord God, said unto mine Only Begotten, that it was not good that the man should be alone; wherefore, I will make an help meet for him.
19 And out of the ground I, the Lord God, formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and commanded that they should come unto Adam, to see what he would call them; and they were also living souls; for I, God, breathed into them the breath of life, and commanded that whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that should be the name thereof.
20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but as for Adam, there was not found an help meet for him.
21 And I, the Lord God, caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam; and he slept, and I took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh in the stead thereof;
22 And the rib which I, the Lord God, had taken from man, made I a woman, and brought her unto the man.
23 And Adam said: This I know now is bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of man.
24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife; and they shall be one flesh.
25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
Welcome to MORMONism!
can't do it can you???
But YOU have not shown what YOU consider to be opinionated, disrespectful, pathetic and asinine.
Until THAT is done; any response by others would be a waste of time; for they'd have to MIND-READ your brain to figger out just what you refer to.
Beware!
I thought that after '08!!!
Well; the top down structure is almost the same; so it's an easy transition.
Who; ME???
Watch out what you wish for...
And just WHERE would a crazy idea like THIS come from???
They succeeded in killing Joseph, but he had finished his work.He was a servant of God, and gave us the Book of Mormon.He said the Bible was right in the main, but, through the translators and others, many precious portions were suppressed, and several other portions were wrongly translated; and now his testimony is in force, for he has sealed it with his blood.As I have frequently told them, no man in this dispensation will enter the courts of heaven, without the approbation of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Jun.Who has made this so?Have I?Have this people?Have the world?No; but the Lord Jehovah has decreed it.If I ever pass into the heavenly courts, it will be by the consent of the Prophet Joseph.If you ever pass through the gates into the Holy City, you will do so upon his certificate that you are worthy to pass.Can you pass without his inspection?No; neither can any person in this dispensation, which is the dispensation of the fulness of times.In this generation, and in all the generations that are to come, everyone will have to undergo the scrutiny of this Prophet.They say that they killed Joseph, and they will yet come with their hats under their arms and bend to him; but what good will it do them, unless they repent?They can come in a certain way and find favor, but will they?
--JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES, vol. 8, p. 224
He's talking about the Gentiles, and you'll note that the result is "one flock and one shepherd", not thousands. Not sure how you get from there to the idea that nobody gets to claim that they're that "one flock". The text doesn't support it.
The greatest kindness one can show is turning another off the path to the evil one, the greatet hatred is doing nothing...
Fortunately the Vatican as well the vast majority of Catholics are a wee bit more ecumenical than you, which is a shared blessing...
Well, THAT too.
He's NOT a "kid". He's a grown man. Men his age have commanded large groups of troops in desperate battle, or controlled huge companies, or even led nations. I will NOT infantilize a grown man.
Well said!
So?
In the Gospels, Jesus is usually talking to (a) His close-knit apostle-disciples of that given age; (b) Pharisees & teachers of the law; (c) everyday fellow Jews He encountered; (d) Samaritans; (e) At the end of His earthly-life, Roman authorities.
Does that mean since you are none of the above, that you never apply anything Jesus says to your life since you don't qualify under the umbrella of those groups?
...and you'll note that the result is "one flock and one shepherd", not thousands.
What? Did Jesus abdicate His shepherdhood? (You had me concerned for a moment?)
And what? You're not accusing Jesus, as the Head of His Church and key leader of it, that He's somehow unable to keep His flock unified enough, are you?
Not sure how you get from there to the idea that nobody gets to claim that they're that "one flock".
You're putting words in my mouth. I never said that the sheep can't claim they are sheep. By virtue of the very verse I cited, I simply pointed out that the sheep who think they are on the "inside" of the pen Jesus might be focusing on at that moment, can't claim to be the only sheep.
(Try reading my comments in full context)
Here, allow me to move on to yet another parallel principle using another verse so you can try to understand: The parable of the waiting Father (prodigal son). The son who stayed at home might be tempted to think he's the only "real" son 'cause the other "prodigalized." Abandoned ship. Went awol.
That would have been a mistaken assumption on his part.
Now, there's bound to be some poster who comes along & says, "He's talking about prodigals, and you'll note that the result is 'one household and one father,' not thousands. Not sure how you get from there to the idea that nobody gets to claim that they're not a 'true son.'"
And me? I'll just shake my head in wonderment.
My point will be -- at that point -- to say: Look again at the brother who stayed home. Instead of welcoming his brother with open arms, he wasn't very "tolerant" of the idea of having somebody who spent his inheritance on wild living treated as a celebration. To that son, he was the "only REAL son on the face of the earth."
The context of this whole thing was simply to say the family is a little bit bigger than you might think; and those who want to shrink it are a wee bit on the intolerant side.
Next post I'll provide a couple of more passages where Jesus indicates this.
38 “Teacher,” said John, “we saw someone driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us.” 39 “Do not stop him,” Jesus said. “For no one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, 40 for whoever is not against us is for us. 41 Truly I tell you, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to the Messiah will certainly not lose their reward. (Mark 9)
48 He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” 49 Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.” (Matthew 12)
fantastic post concerning various marriages and multiple marriages among early Mormans....we are, at this time, considering legalizing marriage between two men or two women....or between any two humans I guess.....which is worse??.....and it is Protestants and unfortunately Catholics who are justifying this disaster.
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