Posted on 03/23/2013 4:02:56 PM PDT by Colofornian
SNIP
Surely we must appear at times to be very amateurish when compared to the professional clergy of other churches.
One doctrine presents a particular challenge. It is our firm conviction that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is...“the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth.” (D&C 1:30)
This doctrine often generates resistance and repels the casual investigator.
Some have said, “We want nothing to do with anyone who makes so presumptuous a claim as that.”
The early Latter-day Saints were...the butt of many clever stories. We, of course, are not free from that today.
Should we not then make one accommodation and set this doctrine aside?
SNIP
It is little wonder that our missionaries are sometimes thought to be overbearing...
SNIP
Inevitably...the “true church” doctrine emerges very early in any serious discussion of the gospel, for there is no better place to start such a discussion than with the First Vision...
Joseph Smith sought answer to the question “which of all the sects was right…and which…should [he] join?” (JS—H 1:18.)...
...In response to his humble prayer, the Father and the Son appeared to him. When he gained possession of himself so as to be able to speak, he asked “which of all the sects was right, that [he] might know which to join.” (JS—H 1:18.)
He recorded this:
“I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt...'
“He again forbade me to join with any of them.” (JS—H 1:19–20.)
That is very blunt language...
If ever he was tempted to disregard those words, they were repeated and sustained in subsequent revelations...
(Excerpt) Read more at lds.org ...
It's a similar message -- but distinct -- to what he gave at the 1971 October General Conference...threaded @ FR here: The Only True and Living Church [Lds intolerantly claim in '71 to be ONLY face-of-earth true church]
From the message/piece: It is our firm conviction that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is...“the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth.” (D&C 1:30) This doctrine often generates resistance and repels the casual investigator. Some have said, “We want nothing to do with anyone who makes so presumptuous a claim as that.” The early Latter-day Saints were...the butt of many clever stories. We, of course, are not free from that today...It is little wonder that our missionaries are sometimes thought to be overbearing...
Of course, no such wording is found in Lds "scriptures" of the First Vision in the Pearl of Great Price. Allow us to review that chapter of Mormon “scripture,” shall we?
What do we find, description-wise?
v. 16
Felt
Saw a pillar of light
v. 17
“the light”
“two Personages” brightness & glory defy all description
a son of the other
v. 18: “the Personages”
v. 19 “the Personage”
v. 20: “the light”
v. 24 “a light” “heard a voice”
v. 25 “a light” “two Personages”
You'll notice that unnamed "Personages" do not = "the Father and the Son" (as in God the Father, and Jesus Christ)
If they were ALL wrong, why did Joseph Smith take ensuing membership class instruction at the local Methodist church in the 1820s???
Notice the "absolutes" Joseph used: NONE/ALL/ALL/ALL/ANY -- in terms of describing the Christian churches of his day, ALL of the Christian creeds, and ALL of the Christian professing believers.
Challenge to Mormons: What is so objectionable about the Apostolic Creed? (Keep in mind the word "catholic" in that creed at the time simply meant "universal")
Snapshot of Joseph Smith’s Slanderous Invectives vs. Christian Sects |
Mormon Source[Note: Most of these are Mormon ‘scriptures'. In fact, First three rows below are Lds 'scripture' & therefore cannot be rug-swept any more than a Jew might try to take three commandments off of the very tablets of stone Moses brought down from the mountain] |
| “...which of all the sects was right… must join NONE of them, for they were ALL WRONG… those professors were ALL CORRUPT…” | Joseph Smith – History vv. 18-19. – Lds "scripture" Pearl of Great Price |
| ...“which of all the sects was right…ALL their CREEDS were an ABOMINATION in his sight…they teach for doctrines the commandments of MEN…” | Joseph Smith – History vv. 18-19. – Lds "scripture" Pearl of Great Price |
| Mormon church the only ‘Christ-sanctioned’ church on earth: “…the foundation of this [Mormon] church…the ONLY true and living church on the face of the whole earth” [Obvious ‘scorched earth’ implication: All other churches are false and dead] | Lds “scripture” Doctrines & Covenants 1:30 |
| Direct question asked of Joseph Smith: 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons?" Answer from Lds "prophet" Joseph Smith: 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." | Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119 [Not “scripture” – but still publicly spoken by the Mormon ‘living prophet’ and published by a later Mormon ‘living prophet,’ Joseph Fielding Smith – via a publisher owned by the Mormon church – Deseret News Press, 1938] |
| “In 1952…the first official proselyting plan was sent to missionaries throughout the world…It included seven missionary discussions that emphasized…[four topics, one of them being]…THE APOSTASY and Restoration…” [This makes it 60 years that Mormon church missionaries, now numbering 55,000, have formally emphasized in its training & door to door saturation a priority in bashing the worldwide Christian church as “apostates” (100% AWOL)] | Our Heritage: A Brief History of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints p. 116, 1996 |
I’ve always thought it preposterous that any church would NOT claim to be the only church that teaches the whole truth.
“I’ve always thought it preposterous that any church would NOT claim to be the only church that teaches the whole truth.”
Christian churches which affirm all the essentials, albeit differing with names like Baptists or some other congregation, ought not do it.
The LDS, however, commonly seeks to be numbered with Baptists and Lutherans as fellow Christians. They are, in fact, an entirely different religion, and rival to us. Thus it is necessary to expose how the LDS really feels about Christianity, so that when they come for to tell us that they are our brothers, we can make it clear from the scriptures and from their own theology that Christ is their religion’s bitter enemy.
Well, that's interesting...kinda of an indirect slam versus Jesus Christ, eh?
(I'm referencing, when I say that, Jesus' words found in John 10:16: 16 I have OTHER sheep that are NOT of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.)
My personal objection to Mormonism, is that they're so stale and plastic. Mormons are like the people of Pleasantville before they get "colorized". They're nice, polite, hard-working, but have no soul.
hum? It is Christ that is the eternal.
Churches/denominations may disagree around the edges, it is the eternal Christ that is the only Truth, it is the Body of Christ that is the church.
As St. Joan of Arc said at her trial: “The Church is Christ, and Christ is the Church.”
Any church that does not claim to be Christ, and to teach everything that Christ wants taught, is just a human club.
The only Church I want to belong to is the Church Jesus was talking about when He said, “I am the Vine, and you are the branches.”
I do not disagree, I was thinking more of items like “going to the movies” or “a drink with dinner” or “swimming with boys and girls” or “dances”...things like that.
(Yeah, but when the branches pretend that they are the "only branches" on the face of the whole earth...and there aren't a whole lot of "branches" in black Africa...then that becomes a bit of a problem)
placemarker
If “all their creeds are an abomination” then why do the LDS share so many ‘creeds’ with other churches? Like:
Baptism, communion, marriage, tithing, Sunday worship, observance of Christmas and Easter, prayer, singing of praises, etc? What exactly is so ‘wrong’ with these things that the Lord Himself supposedly told Smith that they were wrong? And why did not they get corrected? When I was LDS I listened to the same “only correct and true Church” so now the LDS want to be accepted as “just another Christian faith”.
The “branches” are not churches. The branches are people. The Vine (Christ) is the Church. And as there is only one Christ, there is only one Church.
That's fine. We're on the same page there (Greek ecclesia = "called-out ONES" ... flesh & blood...not brick & mortar or hierarchical bureaucracies)
If you re-read the Mormon "first vision" it proclaimed that ALL (as in 100%) of the professing believers at the time of Joseph Smith's pronouncement were "corrupt"...
Yeah, we're all sinners...but Smith practiced a "scorched earth" policy in order to try to make the need for a "from scratch" need for an entirely new church.
Bingo...
KolobKolobKolobKolobKolobKolobKolobKolobKolobKolobKolobKolobKolobKolobKolobKolobKolobKolobKolobKolob.....
Gee, that was fun. Sort of like dancing the Conga when you type it.
;^)
Recently in the news, a Florida college instructor directed his students to step on a sheet of paper, with “Jesus” written on it.
One student refused, a devout Mormon.
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