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[December 1971] The Only True and Living Church [Lds intolerantly claim]
Lds.org (Ensign magazine) ^ | December 1971 | Lds "apostle" Boyd K. Packer

Posted on 03/23/2013 4:02:29 PM PDT by Colofornian

SNIP

The position that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the only true church upon the face of the earth is fundamental. Perhaps it would be more convenient and palatable and popular if we were to avoid it; nevertheless, we are under a sacred obligation and a sacred trust to hold to it. It is not merely an admission; it is a positive declaration. It is so fundamental that we cannot yield on this point.

Now to those who think us uncharitable, we say that it was not devised by us; it was declared by Him, for he gave commandments to the early brethren, and I quote:

“… to lay the foundation of this church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth, with which I, the Lord, am well pleased, speaking unto the church collectively and not individually.” (D&C 1:30.)

SNIP I bear witness that he is a prophet of God. I have a witness that Jesus is the Christ. He lives. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the only true and living church upon the face of this earth, of which I bear witness in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen.

(Excerpt) Read more at lds.org ...


TOPICS: Other Christian; Other non-Christian; Theology
KEYWORDS: apostasy; inman; lds; mormonism; onlytruechurch
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans; jjotto

He’s talking about Luther; trying to drag a red herring across thr trail.


41 posted on 03/24/2013 3:34:34 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans; Normandy
And when they demand to be numbered as Christians right along side us, we’ll remind them of it. the words of their leaders on the subject!



Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).
Joseph Smith: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).
 
 
 
Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).
 
 
 
Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).
 
 
 
Orson Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses
, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses , 18:172).
 
 
President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses , 10:127).
 
 
 
James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).
 
 
 
President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).
 
 
 
More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).
 
 
 
President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).
 
 
President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 2, p.196).


Where's the GREAT REWARD; Norm???

42 posted on 03/24/2013 3:37:13 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
Jesus taught no such thing. He taught that salvation is through Him only, and all those who do not believe are condemned already.

Yeah; that what YOUR church's have taught YOU!!!

But the really imPORTant stuff got tossed out of the bible by evil men; only to be RESTORED thru the beloved Joseph Smith!

--MormonDude(HE will do the IMPORTANT judging!!!)

43 posted on 03/24/2013 3:39:45 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
HE will do the IMPORTANT judging!!!


What Joseph Smith Means to Us 

 
 
 

"He (Joseph Smith) is the man through whom God has spoken... yet I would not like to call him a savior, though in a certain capacity he was a god to us, and is to the nations of the earth, and will continue to be."
- Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:321
 
 
 
 
"You call us fools; but the day will be, gentlemen and ladies, whether you belong to this Church or not, when you will prize brother Joseph Smith as the Prophet of the Living God, and look upon him as a god..."
- Herber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses 5:88
 
 
 
 
"If we get our salvation, we shall have to pass by him [Joseph Smith]; if we enter our glory, it will be through the authority he has received. We cannot get around him [Joseph Smith]"
- (as quoted in 1988 Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide, p. 142)
There is "no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God"
- Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190
 
 
 
 
"I tell you, Joseph holds the keys, and none of us can get into the celestial kingdom without passing by him. We have not got rid of him, but he stands there as the sentinel, holding the keys of the kingdom of God; and there are many of them beside him. I tell you, if we get past those who have mingled with us, and know us best, and have a right to know us best, probably we can pass all other sentinels as far as it is necessary, or as far as we may desire. But I tell you, the pinch will be with those that have mingled with us, stood next to us, weighed our spirits, tried us, and proven us: there will be a pinch, in my view, to get past them. The others, perhaps, will say, If brother Joseph is satisfied with you, you may pass. If it is all right with him, it is all right with me. Then if Joseph shall say to a man, or if brother Brigham say to a man, I forgive you your sins, "Whosoever sins ye remit they are remitted unto them;" if you who have suffered and felt the weight of transgression—if you have generosity enough to forgive the sinner, I will forgive him: you cannot have more generosity than I have. I have given you power to forgive sins, and when the Lord gives a gift, he does not take it back again."
- Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p.154-155
 
 
 
 
"It is because the Lord called Joseph Smith that salvation is again available to mortal men.... If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation,"
- Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 396, 670


They succeeded in killing Joseph, but he had finished his work.
He was a servant of God, and gave us the Book of Mormon.
He said the Bible was right in the main, but, through the translators and others, many precious portions were suppressed, and several other portions were wrongly translated; and now his testimony is in force, for he has sealed it with his blood.
As I have frequently told them, no man in this dispensation will enter the courts of heaven, without the approbation of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Jun.
Who has made this so?
Have I?
Have this people?
Have the world?
No; but the Lord Jehovah has decreed it.
If I ever pass into the heavenly courts, it will be by the consent of the Prophet Joseph.
If you ever pass through the gates into the Holy City, you will do so upon his certificate that you are worthy to pass.
Can you pass without his inspection?
No; neither can any person in this dispensation, which is the dispensation of the fulness of times.
In this generation, and in all the generations that are to come, everyone will have to undergo the scrutiny of this Prophet.
They say that they killed Joseph, and they will yet come with their hats under their arms and bend to him; but what good will it do them, unless they repent?
They can come in a certain way and find favor, but will they?
Brigham Young,

--JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES, vol. 8, p. 224


44 posted on 03/24/2013 3:41:06 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: teppe
LDS belief in Christ is similar to that that existed before the Nicene Creed and is similar to that espoused by Tertullian in “Against Praxeas”

Yup; it sure IS a heresy from long ago!

Genesis 3:5

For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”


The Doctrine and Covenants

Section 132

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded 12 July 1843, relating to the new and everlasting covenant, including the eternity of the marriage covenant, and also the plurality of wives (see History of the Church, 5:501–7). Although the revelation was recorded in 1843, it is evident from the historical records that the doctrines and principles involved in this revelation had been known by the Prophet since 1831.

1–6, Exaltation is gained through the new and everlasting covenant; 7–14, The terms and conditions of that covenant are set forth; 15–20, Celestial marriage and a continuation of the family unit enable men to become gods; 21–25, The strait and narrow way leads to eternal lives; 26–27, The law is given relative to blasphemy against the Holy Ghost; 28–39, Promises of eternal increase and exaltation are made to prophets and Saints in all ages; 40–47, Joseph Smith is given the power to bind and seal on earth and in heaven; 48–50, The Lord seals upon him his exaltation; 51–57, Emma Smith is counseled to be faithful and true; 58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.

 


 

 16Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in amarriage; but are appointed angels in bheaven, which angels are ministering cservants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.

 17For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are aangels of God forever and ever.

 18And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity, if that acovenant is not by me or by my word, which is my law, and is not sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, through him whom I have anointed and appointed unto this power, then it is not valid neither of force when they are out of the world, because they are not joined by me, saith the Lord, neither by my word; when they are out of the world it cannot be received there, because the angels and the gods are appointed there, by whom they cannot pass; they cannot, therefore, inherit my glory; for my house is a house of order, saith the Lord God.

 19And again, verily I say unto you, if a man amarry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and beverlasting covenant, and it is csealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of dpromise, by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the ekeys of this priesthood; and it shall be said unto them—Ye shall come forth in the first resurrection; and if it be after the first resurrection, in the next resurrection; and shall inherit fthrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depths—then shall it be written in the Lamb’s gBook of Life, that he shall commit no hmurder whereby to shed innocent iblood, and if ye abide in my covenant, and commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, it shall be done unto them in all things whatsoever my servant hath put upon them, in time, and through all eternity; and shall be of full force when they are out of the world; and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their jexaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the kseeds forever and ever.

 20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from aeverlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be bgods, because they have call power, and the angels are subject unto them.

 21Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my alaw ye cannot attain to this glory.

 22For astrait is the gate, and narrow the bway that leadeth unto the exaltation and continuation of the clives, and few there be that find it, because ye receive me not in the world neither do ye know me.

 23But if ye receive me in the world, then shall ye know me, and shall receive your exaltation; that awhere I am ye shall be also.

 24This is aeternal lives—to bknow the only wise and true God, and Jesus Christ, whom he hath csent. I am he. Receive ye, therefore, my law.

 25aBroad is the gate, and wide the way that leadeth to the bdeaths; and many there are that go in thereat, because they creceive me not, neither do they abide in my law.


45 posted on 03/24/2013 3:44:36 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: jjotto
Many people are only interested in their own opinions.

But FACTS are pesky things; bullying and pushing their way, no matter WHAT 'opinions' are formed to explain them.

46 posted on 03/24/2013 3:46:36 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: jjotto

Nice stuff that was delievered to the JEWS: the Chosen People.

What should folks who were NOT included in the contract be held to?


47 posted on 03/24/2013 3:47:53 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Colofornian
Teppe consistently shows...

...and then he vanishes from the thread; only popping up in another one a few days later; trying to influence SOMEone that has not heard the TRUTH and understood it.

48 posted on 03/24/2013 3:49:38 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: teppe
LDS working with the writings of the early Church Fathers is a bit like letting a pre-school class loose in a Law library or particle physics lab. A lot of activity but no real understanding...
49 posted on 03/24/2013 5:40:07 AM PDT by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: Elsie

That’s the meaning of the ‘choseness’ of the Children Of Israel. God gave His laws to Adam and Noah (to all mankind) and they came to rest on Noah’s son Shem, who is known as “Melchizidek”. He transferred the primary teaching responsibility to Abraham. Moses the received special Revelation from God Himself and a very specific source of authority was established - for all mankind.


50 posted on 03/24/2013 6:22:32 AM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: Colofornian; teppe; ejonesie22
Teppe consistently shows he has no idea how to grasp historical tenets within the Christian faith...all becomes one tangled mess to him.

That historical exchange shows that or a deliberate misrepresentation (lie) in regards to Tertullian.

51 posted on 03/24/2013 6:52:55 AM PDT by Godzilla (3/7/77)
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To: Colofornian

OK, so?

The Catholic Church likewise claims to be the only true church. The various Protestant sects likewise make claims that the other sects (and Catholicism in particular) are in error.


52 posted on 03/24/2013 6:56:12 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: Colofornian
Mormon defenders on FR consistently label as lies the truth that is posted about mormonism here....and at the same time up to 100,000 mormon missionaries are spreading the lies about Christianity every day throughout the world.
53 posted on 03/24/2013 7:26:18 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Thanks Mitt.)
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To: PapaBear3625
The Catholic Church likewise claims to be the only true church. The various Protestant sects likewise make claims that the other sects (and Catholicism in particular) are in error.

It's one thing to point out error in someone else's beliefs -- like Jesus did when He was talking to the Sadducees (Matthew 22:23). He told them:
29 Jesus replied, “You are IN ERROR because you DO NOT KNOW THE SCRIPTURES OR THE POWER OF GOD<.b>. 30 At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. 31 But about the resurrection of the dead—have you not read what God said to you, 32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.” 33 When the crowds heard this, they were astonished at his teaching. (Matt. 22:29-33)

It's another thing to label specific others as the "children of the devil" -- as Jesus did the Pharisees:
John 8:44,47: You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies…The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.

If the Mormons had wanted to, they could have limited their comments to how others were in error.

But actually, once they adopted Joseph Smith's line of 100% apostasy, 100% restoration -- and he was God's personal from-scratch restorer -- they couldn't be satisfied with merely "reforming" the church.

Martin Luther didn't try to start a separate church. Hence, it's called the "reformation" -- not "restoration."

(The Mormons simply have gone all out in trying to "devilize" Christians...see below the asterisks for documentation of this)

****************************************************

Who are the Christians, and what is Christianity, per Mormonism?
An 'Interview' Across the Generations with the mouthpieces of the Mormon god, the Lds 'prophets' and 'apostles':

Questions re: What is the Devil's role and association with the Christian church per Mormonism?

Q. Who inspires Christians?

A. Joseph Smith: "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).
* Joseph Smith, Jr.: “…all the priests who adhere to the sectarian religions of the day with all their followers, without one exception, receive their portion with the devil and his angels.” (The Elders Journal, Joseph Smith Jr., editor, vol.1, no.4, p.60).

Q. Where did Christianity -- whatever its form between 100 & 200 AD -->19th century -- originate?

A. Lds "apostle"-turned-"prophet" John Taylor, who was with Joseph Smith when Smith died: Christianity was "hatched in hell" (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, page 176)...
* Lds "prophet" Brigham Young: “Brother Taylor has just said that the religions of the day were hatched in hell. The eggs were laid in hell, hatched on its borders, and then kicked on to the earth.” (Journal of Discourses 6:176).
* Taylor: Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century," (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p.167);

Q. Who is classified as part of the "church of the devil" according to the Book of Mormon?

A. BYU professor Kent B. Jackson: "Since whoever does not belong to 'the church of the Lamb of God' belongs to 'the church of the devil,' as Nephi announced then all systems of worship outside of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints would be classified as 'the church of the devil' by Nephi's definition (Kent B. Jackson, "Watch and Remember" etc. from publication By Study and Also by Faith: Essays in Honor of Hugh W. Nibley on the Occasion of His Eightieth Birthday, 3/27/90, vol. 1, p. 87, citing 1 Nephi 14:9-10 from the Book of Mormon)

Q. What is the church of the devil in our day?

A. Lds "apostle" Bruce R. McConkie: "What is the church of the devil in our day, and where is the seat of her power?.... It is ALL of the systems, both Christian and non-Christian, that perverted the pure and perfect gospel....It is communism; it is Islam; it is Buddhism; it is modern Christianity in all its parts. It is Germany under Hitler, Russia under Stalin, and Italy under Mussolini." (The Millennial Messiah, pp. 54-55.)
* Lds "apostle" Bruce R. McConkie: "The church of the devil is the world; it is all the carnality and evil to which fallen man is heir; it is every unholy and wicked practice; it is every false religion, every supposed system of salvation which does not actually save and exalt man in the highest heaven of the celestial world. It is every church except the true church, whether parading under a Christian or a pagan banner." (Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, 3:551)

Q. This last comment of yours? Is that still taught by the official Mormon church in its official curricula in official Institute classes to college students?

A. (Yes): The church of JC LDS: Seminaries and Institutes of Religion: Book of Mormon Student Manual: Chapter 4: 1Nephi 11–14 : Notes and Commentary

Q. So you're saying that...

A.McConkie: "...the great apostate church as the anti-christ...This great antichrist...is the church of the devil." (Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine p.40)

Who are the Christians, and what is Christianity, per Mormonism?
An 'Interview' Across the Generations with the mouthpieces of the Mormon god, the Lds 'prophets' and 'apostles':

Questions Re: How is Christ's church described as it pertains to Mormons and Christians. Questions of legitimacy and authority.

Q. While we all know not every member of a Christian church is a true Christian, what difference is there between Christians in Christian churches and Mormons who reference themselves as 'Christians?'

A. Brigham Young: "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).

Q: Do LDS considers themselves one legitimate church among many?

Lds "apostle" Bruce R. McConkie: "Mormonism is Christianity; Christianity is Mormonism; they are one and the same, and they are not to be distinguished from each other in the minutest detail ...Mormons are true Christians; their worship is the pure, unadulterated Christianity authored by Christ and accepted by Peter, James, and John and all the ancient saints." (Mormon Doctrine, p. 513).

Q: Does that mean if all Mormons are Christians then all Christians are Mormons. Is that right?

A: (You weren't listening...I 'just' answered that:) Lds "prophet" Brigham Young: "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are NOT Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity." (Journal of Discourses 10:230.) Q. Is the Mormon church the only true church then? Are all the other ones false?

A. Lds "prophet" Joseph Smith: "This [the LDS] Church...is the ONLY only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth" (Doctrine and Covenants 1:30).
* Lds "prophet" Ezra Taft Benson, who served in the Eisenhower administration: "This is not just another Church. This is not just one of a family of Christian churches. This is the Church and kingdom of God, the only true Church upon the face of the earth..." (Teachings of LDS prophet Ezra Taft Benson, p.164-165).
* Lds "apostle"-turned-"prophet" John Taylor: "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand?… You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses 6:24).
* Lds "prophet' Spencer W. Kimball: "This is the only true church ...This is not a church. This is the Church of Jesus Christ. There are churches of men all over the land and they have great cathedrals, synagogues, and other houses of worship running into the hundreds of millions of dollars. They are churches of men. They teach the doctrines of men, combined with the philosophies and ethics and other ideas and ideals that men have partly developed and partly found in sacred places and interpreted for themselves" (Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, p. 421).

54 posted on 03/24/2013 12:03:25 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: jjotto
...and they came to rest on Noah’s son Shem,...

And you know this HOW?

55 posted on 03/24/2013 12:11:10 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Normandy; Burkean; Elsie
A believing Mormon here — yes, I believe that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the only church on earth authorized by Jesus, but certainly don’t believe that everyone else is going to hell.

IoW, Burkean, Normandy the Mormon believes:
(a) When Jesus failed to keep His church together due to the Mormon claim of 100% apostasy, the Mormon jesus failed to the uttermost degree. But, no worry, 'cause countless edicts from Salt Lake City have assured their faithful and reassured them that the Mormon gods won't let their "prophet" lead them astray.
IoW, since Lds "prophet" Thomas Monson is their #16 "prophet," the Mormon score -- in baseball terms -- would be: The Salt Lake City Prophets 16, Jesus & His Apostle-Disciples 0.

(why Joseph Smith even boasted that "no man" -- except he alone-- had been able to keep a church together...and Smith compared himself to both Jesus and the apostle Paul in such a boast)

And then (b) The "little-known" Mormon description of those who are supposedly "saved" -- yet not in the Mormon celestial kingdom -- are those who will NEVER be in the presence of the Lord Jesus.

Sorry, Normandy...but a "heaven" without our Heavenly Father is no "heaven" at all...and you should be ashamed of promoting such a "heaven" as the true heaven!

56 posted on 03/24/2013 12:13:28 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Elsie

Conventional Jewish history.

See, for just a single example,

http://www.chabad.org/parshah/article_cdo/aid/1326593/jewish/Who-Was-Melchizedek.htm


57 posted on 03/24/2013 2:10:48 PM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: jjotto
You mean "conventional Jewish fables" written within the past 2,000 years about events that happened in the deepest antiquity, and which imagine silly fables like the one mentioned in your article: "The ancient Targumim (Aramaic interpretive translations) identify Melchizedek as Shem—son of Noah. Shem was one of the links in the chain who transmitted the G‑dly traditions that originated with Adam. These traditions were carefully handed down from generation to generation, and Shem—who headed an academy—was a key conductor of these teachings. The Midrash tells us that he was so perfect and so spiritually advanced that he was born circumcised.2" --------------------------------------------------------------- I do enjoy reading the Targum though with Jonathon Ben Uzziel, written some 30 years before the birth of Christ, since he supports the Christian reading of important Messianic prophecies in Isaiah, such as Isaiah 53: "Behold my servant the MESSIAH" in his paraphrase. Your article also misapplies Psalm 110 to Abraham and his seed, when the topic is clearly that of the Messiah: Psa 110:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. Unless the Jewish people is the 'lord" of David.
58 posted on 03/24/2013 2:30:34 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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To: jjotto

Oops, the first post got all jumbled. Here it is again, with more separation. Still comes up funky in preview though. Not acting as it normally does.:

You mean “conventional Jewish fables” written within the past 2,000 years about events that happened in the deepest antiquity, and which imagine silly fables like the one mentioned in your article:

“The Midrash tells us that he was so perfect and so spiritually advanced that he was born circumcised.2”


I do enjoy reading the Targum though with Jonathon Ben Uzziel, written some 30 years before the birth of Christ, since he supports the Christian reading of important Messianic prophecies in Isaiah, such as Isaiah 53: “Behold my servant the MESSIAH” in his paraphrase.

Your article also misapplies Psalm 110 to Abraham and his seed, when the topic is clearly that of the Messiah: Psa 110:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. Unless the Jewish people is the ‘lord” of David.


59 posted on 03/24/2013 2:33:37 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

Wow! I confess I thought this was accepted Christian teaching as well. I understand the fear and denial of Jewish theology, but did not realize it extended to actual Jewish history.

Psalm 83:4 They have said, Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation; that the name of Israel may be no more in remembrance.


60 posted on 03/24/2013 2:41:06 PM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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