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To: RobbyS

Let me for clarification’s sake summarize what I’ve learned from you so far ( feel free to tell me what I’ve missed ):

1) I take it from your response that the answer is NO. Luis Palau ( despite his not recognizing the Pope as primate of the church ) is NOT under the Trent/Vatican I anathema. The ‘anyone’ in their , ‘if anyone says’ clause refer to specific people in HISTORY PAST, not to non-catholic Christians today.

2) The anathema of Vatican I and Trent refers only to those who threaten to make war on the Vatican and NOT to those Reformers and other non-catholic Christians who do not recognize the Pope’s authority over them but are not at war ( militarily ) with the Vatican.

3) Vatican II therefore recognizes the likes of Luis Palau and even the spiritual descendants of the reformers as “united in Christ” together with devout Roman Catholics.


40 posted on 03/20/2013 9:31:20 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

I am saying that the pronouncement of the Council were in response to the teachings of the Reformers and a condemnation of them. Trent was a response to an existential threat. It took Rome more than a decade to wake up to what was going on, that The Empire was in schism. Rome had been distracted by their quarrel with the Emperor which led to the sack of Rome by his troops, with the Turkish threat, with the demands of Henry VIII and Francis etc. Olkiticsa in short. Then there started a move to negotiate with the Lutheran princes, and moves for new council. When it finally happened, it was without the Reformers, that is to say, the Lutherans etc. The Catholics reformers set the agenda, so Trent adopted the reform agenda of the Catholic reformers. Less a “counter-Reformation,”than an :alternative-reformation. The rivalry with today’s evangelicals, to the extent that they do not use the rhetoric of the Protestant Reformers, is of a different kind.


41 posted on 03/20/2013 3:17:55 PM PDT by RobbyS (Christus rex.)
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