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To: Syncro
LOL, I'm not interested in what a n00b student can tell me. God gave the job of understanding scripture to the Holy Spirit and that's good enough for me. The better translation into English would have been "This is the body which is Me." Yea maybe when in your first year of Greek School. But the Bible is quite clear, and it would NOT be as you say.

You are (or should be) that the New Testament was originally written in Greek. Most of it was written in Koine or what is commonly called "attic" Greek.

To get the clearest understanding of what is intended you should whenever possible use primary languages. Second ANY translation no matter how faithful will colored by the biases of the translator, if we use the primary language we are not subject to those biases.

Jesus took the bread and broke it and said this is my body, it is broken just for you. (or something like that)

Thank you for a perfect example proving my point. Words mean things and the Word of God means very specific things not "something like that."

Believing that God said "something like that" Led Eve to eat the forbidden fruit. If God said it I want to know exactly what he said.

Now if it was literally His body, why would he use bread?

I am not claiming to know either the heart or mind of God, but the Bible is filled with examples of God using "material" for His purposes. Right from the start He created the entire universe from nothing, yet when he created man he used the mud from the earth. When He created woman He could have done it from nothing or He could have done it from the ground again, instead chose to use one of Adams ribs.

He had Samson use the jawbone of an ass to slay the Philistines.

In John 9 Jesus used mud to heal the man born blind from birth. He could have just snapped His fingers. He allowed the woman with the hemorrhage to be healed by touching His cloak. Jesus is not adverse to using parts of creation to connect us to Him.

As to why bread specifically. This goes back to Chapter 12 of Exodus, three things are consumed, the lamb, bitter herbs and unleavened bread.

Later in the desert (Chapter 16)they are given the manna for forty years. In 16:32 he commanded them to keep an omerful and that was placed in the Ark with Aaron's staff and the Tablets.

There something that you need to understand and I don't want you to take my word for this. There is a website called "Ask Moses" which is staffed 24/7 by Rabbi's Ask for one that is an expert on the meaning of the Passover. The Jewish understanding of the Passover is that today 2400 plus years later when they celebrate Passover they are actually participating in the original one. For them the term: "Do this in remembrance..." is not a simple recollection it is an actual participation in the event.

In light of that when Jesus tells the Apostles that "This is My Body" and Do this in remembrance of me" He is giving them very specific instructions. If you combine this with John 6 and His inistanace that He IS the bread from heaven and must be consumed to have eternal life that leads to only one conclusion. It really is His Body and Precious Blood.

I might also suggest that you take the time to read "The Fourth Cup" and "The Lambs Supper" by Scott Hahn. I also Strongly Recommend "Not by Bread Alone" by Robert Sungenis. Both of them do a much better job of explaining than I do and are able to go into much more depth and detail.

I apologize for the length of this post, but it is something i don't treat lightly.

138 posted on 03/19/2013 4:03:33 PM PDT by verga (A nation divided by Zero!)
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To: verga

Jesus took the bread and broke it and said this is my body, it is broken just for you. (or something like that)

Thank you for a perfect example proving my point. Words mean things and the Word of God means very specific things not "something like that."

Nit picking at it's finest verga.

Jesus did take the bread and broke it. He did say This is my body. He did say to eat it. It was broken just for us.

Because of the apparent OCD in your previous post, "something like that" was used because I did not post in the original Greek, but gave a quite accurate English translation verbatim style.

Do you not believe that Jesus said those things? I can show you the scriptures if you like.

Now that the picked nits have been put to rest, let's see what else you have to say...

You are (or should be) that the New Testament was originally written in Greek

That makes no sense. Can you repeat that in the original Geek..er..Greek?

Or maybe translate into an understandable English sentence structure thingie.

I am not claiming to know either the heart or mind of God...

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. 16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.--1 Corinthians 2:14-16

5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God--Philippians 2:5,6

The Bible is full of little gems such as the above to help us, through the helpful ministry of the Holy Spirit, understand God and the scriptures.

You give some vague references to scriptures and then give your opinion of what they mean.

I find it easier to understand scripture by looking at them, but you did not post the ones your referenced, nor provided a link.

I don't have time to study how the Jews observe Passover, however they wish to do it is fine with me.

The rest of your post is what Penny calls jibber jabber.

I would also would like to mention the length of my post; I like to back up my conclusions with scripture, plus impart Biblical truths to people I discuss issues with to help them understand the mind of God.

An afterthought:

Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.  33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.  34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.

35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.--John 6, 32-35

His followers understood what he meant, and partook of the Bread of life by coming to Him...and he promised them they would never hunger or thirst. They were spiritually fulfilled.

The rest of John 6 is primarily Jesus dealing with the murmuring Jews and their disbelief.

And then on to the disciples who saw this as a "hard teaching." Nevertheless, they "got" it. I will leave you with verse 63 where Jesus said:

The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for NOTHING. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit [or are Spirit] and life (NIV)

139 posted on 03/19/2013 5:51:00 PM PDT by Syncro (Hebrews 11:1-Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen)
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