Posted on 03/15/2013 8:38:27 AM PDT by Colofornian
As Easter approaches, think of this question: Does it make a difference which Jesus you believe in?
The "Jesus" of the Marharishi of Transcendental Meditation is a Jesus who never suffered -- at odds with the cross.
The "Jesus" of Guru Maharaj Ji supposedly merged with Krishna, Ram and Buddha -- at odds with the uniqueness of Jesus.
The only difference between the Moonie "jesus" and the rest of us, said, Sun Myung Moon, is that Jesus had no original sin nature.
The "Jesus" of Christian Science think of themselves as "Christian," yet they don't believe Jesus is God.
The "Jesus" of the Jehovah's Witnesses is not Almighty and is "a god," but not "THE" God; nor did He bodily resurrect.
The "Jesus" of many gnostics would in no way incarnate a human body -- because that to them would be too "corrupt" of a thing to do.
The "Jesus" of Brigham Young was one redeemer-savior among who knows how many? "He was the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. On every earth. How many earths are there?...Consequently every earth has its redeemer..." Brigham told us (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 14, p. 71, 1870) [Not exactly a "unique" redeemer among a slew full of them!]
The "Jesus" of Mormonism is a pre-existent spirit-creature; a son of a God-man whose next-in-line brother is "Lucifer/Satan" -- a "Jesus" who had to work out his own salvation; and whose blood didn't cover all of our personal sins (thereby rendering him as an incomplete, inadequate "savior").
Can somebody tell us: How can all these "Jesuses" be one-in-the-same?
Can you profess/confess to a Jesus who...
...suffered on the cross as well as a TM "Jesus" who doesn't?
...resurrected bodily and a JW "Jesus" who didn't?
...transcends us in every way and a Moonie "Jesus" who only transcends us sin-wise?
...is united with the Father & the Spirit vs. a Hindu offshoot/New Age "Jesus" who merges as part of a divine flame or divine ocean?
...is THE fully-God, fully-man incarnate son of God vs. a less-than-human embodied gnostic "Jesus"?
...is THE Savior vs. a Mormon "Jesus" who competes with ALL kinds of "saviors" on other planets (per Brigham) & ALL kinds of "saviors" on THIS planet (per Lds "prophets'" description of Baptism of the dead "saviors")?? [For documentation see: Are Mormon people LITERAL saviors of dead Jews, others? (The OTHER World Series: Vanity)]
...is THE Creator vs. a Mormon "Jesus," a mere spirit-creature?
...is THE Savior vs. a Mormon "Jesus" who is touted by Lds leaders as a "saved being?"
...created Lucifer (Col. 1:16-17) vs. a Mormon "Jesus" who "lucked out" on being ahead of Lucifer spirit-birth assembly line, only because of spirit-birth order???
...died BOTH for our sin nature AND ALL of our personal sins vs. a Mormon "Jesus" who didn't?
By these definitions, we'd have to define JWs, Christian Science, Moonies, New Age adherents, & all the rest as "Christians," too!
When it comes to Mormons, it's rather interesting that they exhibit a sense of "boundary identity"...they don't like it when fundamentalist LDS are identified as "Mormons!"
Are we as Christians of the Christian faith to draw ZERO boundaries as to who the real Jesus is? Can Jesus be endlessly morphed and counterfeited with pretzel logic?
For those in this age of "tolerance" who might be tempted to do so, well, good luck with helping others sort out who is the real Jesus is once a dualistic Jesus is embraced by the one-world religionists!
The apostle Paul didn't think it was so great that the early Corinthian church put up "easily enough" with those who preached another Jesus, another Spirit, and another Gospel:
3 "But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 4 For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the Spirit you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough." (2 Corinthians 11:3-4)
| Questions Distinguishing 'Mormon' jesus from Jesus of Bible | Mormon 'Jesus' | Jesus of Bible |
| 1. Was Jesus self-existent from all eternity past? | NO: Lds say ALL "intelligences" -- including Jesus -- existed (D&C 93:29) before becoming a "spirit" child born to a divine goddess on a planet near Kolob; yet Joseph Smith could not even keep his story straight here, giving a "revelation" in 1831 that "from all eternity to all eternity, the Great I AM, even Jesus Christ" (D&C 39:1) + Alma 13:9 talks about the "only begotten without beginning of days" I openly dare LDS to forthrightly exegete Doctrine & Covenants 39:1, which says: Hearken and listen to the voice of him who is from all eternity to all eternity, the Great I AM, even Jesus Christ.... What does "from all eternity to all eternity" mean? "The intelligence of spirits had no beginning, neither will it have an end. That is good logic...Intelligence is eternal & exists upon a self-existent principle...The first principles of man are self-existent with God." Smith, p. 210 [TofPresidents of the Church] | YES: Bible: Before Abraham was, "I AM" (John 8:58) ["I AM" is a divine Name first introduced in Exodus 3:14 and means, "The Self-Existing One"...THE Jesus is self-existent and didn't need a "mom god" on a planet near Kolob to "progress" in His life. Mormons flat-out deny the teaching found in John 1:1, 18 and Micah 5:2, because they claim Jesus was part of a past creation process – (obviously if Jesus’ Mormon “father” was once a man, then Jesus was at some point “less” in stature at that “time”) * "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God...the Word became flesh and dwelt among us [Jesus]" (Jn. 1:1,18). * ”But thou, Bethlehem Ephrata, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting." (Micah 5:2) |
| 2. Is the title 'firstborn' as applied to Christ linked to being the "elder brother" of you and me as pre-earth spirits, or to Christ as pre-eminent heir and creator of all things? | The Firstborn "spirit" of many born spirits on a planet near Kolob; the 'Mormon Jesus' at his "spirit birth" was only "more special" at his "spirit birth" than you or me only because He was the "firstborn" | In Hebrew culture, the firstborn = "heir"...Jesus was not the "first" to be born...though Paul also adds in Col. 1:18 Jesus was the "firstborn of the dead" -- the first to rise from the dead. Colossians 1:15-16 explains this Jesus as "heir" -- "firstborn" -- as this Greek word meant pre-eminent -- or has first right over all creation...Psalm 80:27 demonstrates this idea of priority of position as Col. 1:16 says Jesus is creator of all, all things were created for Jesus (cf. Hebrews 3:4) |
| 3. Can the 'Creator' be One who was 'created' (as a 'creature')? | YES "And virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Lds "apostle" Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, pg.269 implying that "Christendom" postulates a "mythical Christ" because we say Jesus is "uncreated" -- and part of a "triple unity" with the Father and Holy Spirit). | NO: 16 For by him were ALL things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: ALL things were created by him, and for him: (Col. 1:16) |
| 4. Was Jesus as Son of God perfect from eternity past? | NO: "Even Christ himself was NOT perfect at first; he received not a fulness at first, but he received grace for grace, and he continued to receive more and more until he received a fulness." (Lds 6th "prophet" Joseph F. Smith, Gospel Doctrine, 1986, p. 68; cf. Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph F. Smith, p. 153) * "...we have a correct idea of the character of the Son from the writings of the apostles, so far as they learned it. But while he was tabernacling in the flesh, he was more or less contaminated with fallen nature." (Brigham Young, JoD vol. 6, p. 95) | YES: "He made Him WHO KNEW NO SIN to be sin" (2 Cor. 5:21); Christ "did no sin" (1 Pet. 2:22) |
| 5. Was Jesus always divine from eternity past? | NO: * "Jesus BECAME a God and reached His great state of understanding through consistent effort and continuous obedience to all the Gospel truths and universal laws." (p. 51 Milton Hunter, The Gospel Through the Ages); * "Christ ATTAINED Godhood while yet in pre-existence..." (Lds "apostle" Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 1966, p. 323) | YES: "And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began." (Jesus' prayer in Gethsemane, John 17:5); ...unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever (Heb. 1:8) |
| 6. Was Jesus born "at" Bethlehem? | NO: "...he shall be born of Mary, at Jerusalem..." (Alma 7:10, Book of Mormon) | YES: Actual Jesus born IN Bethlehem (Matt. 2:1) not "at Jerusalem" Was Jesus born "at Jerusalem"? |
| 7. Was one of the purposes that Christ came to earth was so that He, Himself could become a "saved being?" | YES: The 'Mormon' Jesus: "Christ is a saved being” (Lds "apostle" McConkie, Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, Vol. 3, p 257) “Modern revelation speaks of our Lord as he that ‘ascended up on high, as also he descended below all things, in that he comprehended all things, that he might be in all and through all things, the light of truth‘ (D&C 88:6). Christ's rise to the throne of exaltation was preceded by his descent below all things. Only by submitting to the powers of demons and death and hell could he, in the resurrection, serve as our exemplar of a SAVED BEING...” (McConkie and Millet, Doctrinal Commentary on the Book of Mormon, vol. 1, p. 234) Please also see... * McConkie, Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, Vol. 3, p. 238 where he said the Mormon "jesus" "Needs salvation...Came to earth to work out His own salvation”) and * McConkie, "The Seven Deadly Heresies,' in Speeches of the Year, 1980 [Provo: Brigham Young University Press, 1981] p. 78 where he said: "There was only one perfect being, the Lord Jesus. If men had to be perfect and live all of the law strictly, wholly, and completely, there would be only one saved person in eternity." [cited in Come, Follow Me: Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide 1983 (1983) p. 72] | NO: I'm sorry, but the real Christ did not need to "work out His own salvation" as Lds apostles teach; in fact, He is THE Savior of the world: And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be THE Savior of the world. (1 John 4:14; cf. John 4:42). |
| 8. Is Jesus but one 'savior'-'redeemer' among many? | YES: The "Jesus" of Brigham Young is one redeemer-savior among who knows how many? "He was the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. On every earth. How many earths are there?... Consequently every earth has its redeemer..." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 14, p. 71, 1870); cf. how Mormons name themselves as "saviors" -- numerous citations: Are Mormon people LITERAL saviors of dead Jews, others? | NO: "And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be THE Savior of the world." (1 John 4:14); "They said to the woman, “We no longer believe just because of what you said; now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is THE Savior of the world.” (John 4:42) |
| 9. Were our sins 'atoned' for in the Garden of Gethesemane? | YES: * "It was in Gethsemane, on the slopes of the Mount of Olives, that Jesus made his perfect atonement by the shedding of his blood more so than on the cross." (BYU Professor Robert J. Matthews, A Bible! ABible! p. 282) * "It was there [Gethsemane] that the Savior paid the price for all the sorrows, sins and transgressions of every human being who ever lives or ever will live." (Seventy -- Second Quorum -- Wolfgang H. Paul, "Gratitude for the Atonement," Ensign, June 2007, p. 15) | NO: This Jesus didn't atone for sins by sweating blood in the garden; He did it on Calvary as the Bible proclaims in Col. 1:20: "And, having made peace through the blood of the cross..." |
| 10. Was Jesus quite violent at the point of His death? | YES: Lds "prophet" Joseph Fielding Smith talked about "...a period of darkness at the death of Christ... "greater period of darkness and terrible punishment came upon the people in the Western Hemisphere because of their extreme wickedness..." (Answers to Gospel Questions, vol. 3, p. 45, Deseret Book Co., 1960) Biblical Jesus came to see that they would have life (John 10:10); the Book of Mormon jesus came to bring down destruction (3 Nephi 9:12) and ensure that people would "howl" in that destruction (3 Nephi 8:23); The Biblical Jesus came to ensure people would have abundant life (John 10:10); the Book of Mormon jesus came to ensure people would be in "continual...mourning" (3 Nephi 8:23); The Biblical Jesus came to be the Light of the world (John 1:9; 8:12; 9:5); the Book of Mormon jesus came to yield complete darkness for three days (3 Nephi 8:23) NOTE: Please read 3 Nephi 8:8-->3 Nephi 9:12 for entire picture of overwhelming destruction caused by the Mormon 'Jesus': Cities were supposedly all either sunk by the Mormon jesus, or horrifically burned to death, plus for added emphasis, ”many great destructions have I caused to come upon this land...” (3 Nephi 9:12)...All told, upon the Mormon jesus' death, he supposedly unleashes punishment. He levels 16 cities, killing 70,000-->90,000 people! [Note: Nothing of the kind is stated in the Bible!] Yes, there was judgment on the cross! Yes, it was terrible! But the real Jesus absorbed all of that judgment and terror -- our very sins -- there on the cross! The sad result is that too many LDS & RLDS alike ONLY see the Book of Mormon Easter judgment upon people! The week that followed the Book of Mormon jesus’ resurrection, was a terrible 4 days or so! No wonder a tremendous aversion to the cross exists among Mormons due to Joseph Smith's version of post crucifixion events! |
NO: The Biblical Jesus came to see that they would have life (John 10:10), to ensure people would have abundant life (John 10:10), and to be the Light of the world (John 1:9; 8:12; 9:5) |
| 11. Did Jesus really die for our personal sins or our rebellious nature? | NO: Lds "apostle" Jeffrey Holland though claims forgiveness of personal sins applies to only to members of the Mormon church: From this Holland article: Latter-day Saints believe that other aspects of Christ's gift are conditional upon obedience and diligence in keeping God's commandments. For example, while members of the human family are freely and universally given a reprieve from Adam's sin through no effort or action of their own, they are not freely and universally given a reprieve of their own sins unless they pledge faith in Christ, repent of those sins, are baptized in his name, receive the gift of the Holy Ghost and confirmation into Christ's church... Source: Lds "apostle" Jeffrey Holland: ATONEMENT OF JESUS CHRIST - Mormon- (OPEN) The Mormon 2nd article of faith emphasizes the Mormon doctrine of men being subject to punishment for their own sins; this Mormon "jesus" doesn't serve as our Substitute [LDS second article of faith: "We believe that men will be punished for their OWN sins, and not for Adam's transgression."] The Mormon second article of faith, therefore, is a half-truth and a false gospel. Men who do not place their faith in the true Jesus Christ will indeed die in their sins; beyond that, Jesus' blood covers the sin of others. The flip side of the Mormon 2nd article of faith is that the Mormon jesus was simply punished for Adam's sin to release us to "free agency." | YES, BOTH: "...the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from ALL sin." (1 John 1:7) Other Biblical verses rejected: 1 John 2:2; 1 Peter 2:24; Heb. 1:3 |
| 12. Is Christ's powerful atoning blood diluded to 'anemic' levels? | YES: Although the Book of Mormon makes some solid statements about Christ's powerful atoning blood (see, for example Mosiah 3:18), Mormon leaders wind up accusing Jesus of having rather anemic blood; yes, Lds "scriptures" highlight His blood as one which cleanses from unrighteousness (Alma 7:14, Book of Mormon; D&C 76:41, Doctrines & Covenants; Moses 6:59, Pearl of Great Price) -- unfortunately such ultimate cleansing is rooted solely on ability to keep commandments: "That by keeping the commandments, they MIGHT be washed and cleansed from all their sins." (D&C 76:52). Other related statements to diluting cleansing power of Christ's blood: * "Joseph Smith taught that there were certain sins so grievous that man may commit, that they will place the transgressors beyond the power of the atonement of Christ. If these offenses are committed, then the blood of Christ will not cleanse them from their sins even though they repent. Therefore their only hope is to have their own blood shed to atone, as far as possible, in their behalf. This is scriptural doctrine, and is taught in all the standard works of the Church." (Lds "prophet" Joseph Fielding Smith, "Doctrines of Salvation, vol.1 , p. 135-136) * "Man may commit certain grievous sins--according to his light and knowledge--that will place him beyond the reach of the atoning blood of Christ. If then he would be save he must make sacrifice of his own life to atone-- so far as in his power lies -- for that sin, for the blood of Christ alone under certain circumstances will not avail." (Lds "apostle" Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 93). So much for the power of Christ's blood to cover sins per Mormonism! * "Christians speak often of the blood of Christ and its cleansing power. Much that is believed and taught on this subject, however, is such utter nonsense and so palpably false that to believe it is to lose one's salvation. Many go so far, for instance, as to pretend, at least, to believe that if we confess Christ with our lips and avow that we accept him as our personal Savior, we are thereby saved. His blood, without other act than mere belief, they say, makes us clean." (Lds Tract titled, "What the Mormons Think of Christ, p. 31) * "There is not a man or woman, who violates the covenants made with their God, that will not be required to pay the debt. The blood of Christ will never wipe that out, your own blood must atone for it; and the judgments of the Almighty will come, sooner or later, and every man and woman will have to atone for breaking their covenants" (Brigham Young, March 16, 1856, Journal of Discourses, 3:247) | NO: "...the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from ALL sin." (1 John 1:7); "To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood" (Rev. 1:5); "... with your blood you purchased for God persons from every tribe and language and people and nation."(Rev. 5:9); "they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." (Rev. 7:14); "And so Jesus also suffered outside the city gate to make the people holy through his own blood." (Heb. 13:12); "Therefore, brothers and sisters, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus..." (Heb. 10:19); "In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace" (Eph. 1:7); Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him!" (Rom. 5:9) |
| 13. Is Jesus as unique as the Bible makes Him out to be? | NO: Due to unique Lds doctrine that (a) we were all eternal; (b) we were all spirit babies just like Jesus; (c) their teaching that Jesus was a "saved being" -- in need of "salvation"; (d) all Mormons become "saviors" via baptizing dead people; (e) all temple Mormons become gods. (f) and SOME Lds leaders' teachings that Jesus is not deserving of worship. The Mormon "jesus" upon spirit birth was not unique other than his spirit birth order. He's just one god among perhaps millions of Mormon "gods." (Lds "prophet" Spencer W. Kimball not all that long ago told 225,000 gathered that perhaps "225,000 gods" were among them then!!!) | YES: 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of THE ONLY begotten Son of God. (John 3:18) Jesus is either "the ONLY begotten Son" from eternity -- not one of MANY begotten spirit sons in some pre-existence -- or He is not unique; and if Lds say "begotten" references such new "condition" Jesus acquired upon conception in Mary's womb, how is it that Jesus suddenly became a Son and the Father suddenly became a Father -- unless it's true that Lds "apostle" Bruce McConkie & Lds "prophet" Brigham Young taught that the paternity was a literal one -- that the Father came down and had sex with Mary!!! |
| 14. Can Jesus be prayed to directly? | NO: Yet... “And behold, they began to pray; and they did pray unto Jesus, calling him their Lord and God…when Jesus had thus prayed unto the Father, he came unto his disciples, and behold, they did still continue, without ceasing, to pray unto him…And it came to pass that Jesus blessed them as they did pray unto him…And Jesus said unto them: Pray on; nevertheless they did not cease to pray.” (3 Nephi 19:18, 24-26, Book of Mormon) | YES Stephen, Acts prayed directly to Jesus! While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit." (Acts 7:59) |
But it is ALL biased and slanted and misinformation and distortion and just plain gobbldy gook!
--MormonDuge(We have the truth; why do you resist our teachings???)
Jesus (yeah; the REAL one) can help you get over this...
You know, wiseone, this is a DAMNED good question!!!
And a good ol’ Hoosier boy at that!
I know a few 60's relics who seem inclined that way...
I shoulda looked you up when we spent those happy years in Steuben County.
My understanding is that Jim Jones’ only “religion” was Marxism, and he figured he could soft sell Marxism by dressing it up in religious robes.
I think I heard that line on Battlestar Galactica.
Or was that from the Borg?
“I always felt the best advice is for us to mind the logs in our own eyes before wailing about the specks in others.
The goal is to bring others lovingly to Christ. Does tearing down other people accomplish this?”
Who’s tearing down people? We’re tearing down false religions systems which tear people down to hell.
Jones was a student pastor for a Methodist church in 1952...before going off the deep end
I did not know that about Jim Jones, i did know a man who had been a preacher and although i was too young to know at that time, he was said to be a good one, he told me later that he found himself unfit to preach the Gospel.
Unlike some of them, He did not want to take every one down with him.
“If “Minding the logs in our eyes” = NEVER critiquing anybody, then why in God’s Name are you critiquing me?”
I didn’t critique, I made a comment about my approach to evangelizing and asked a question about your approach, which you never answered, by the way. I Also like how your non-answer precludes any responsibility for self-reflection on your part.
To answer your question, yes, I did consider the logs in my eyes before posting and pray daily for forgiveness. I also pray for the wisdom to know when I’m am doing the Lord’s will and when I am not. Upon seeing how you post the same things over and over, I felt compelled to respond.
I’m asking the question honestly, without anger. If you (including the cut-and-paste responders on the thread) react angrily to a simple question about spreading the Word, that is your issue - See my point about logs in your eyes.
How does tearing down a fellow Christians’belief in Jesus, bring them closer to the Lord?
I am really at a loss to see how your approach gives greater glory to God. However, I can see how your approach might give greater glory to yourselves (pride). That is why I ask. So please actually answer if you can without all the form letter cut and pastes of your compatriots.
“Which Christ though? That’s kind of the point of the article, isn’t it?”
Very true and a good point. I am not defending the Islamic or Buddist “Jesus”. Please don’t think that. I am simply trying to understand the whole “my Jesus is better than your Jesus” game that Christians play with each other. If you want to put your faith in Jesus Ruiz, be my guest. But why don’t you come to Sunday worship with me and learn about a Jesus who can actually change your life?
“I didn’t critique, I made a comment about my approach to evangelizing and asked a question about your approach, which you never answered, by the way.”
He wouldn’t have had to have answered. You said he was tearing people down. Obviously, only false religions are getting torn down. Is that a problem?
2Co 11:12-13 But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we. (13) For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
2Pe 2:1-2 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. (2) And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
“I am simply trying to understand the whole “my Jesus is better than your Jesus” game that Christians play with each other.”
But Jesus IS better than the false Jesus of Mormonism, or of the Jehovah’s Witnesses, or of the Baha’i, and so on and so forth.
“But why don’t you come to Sunday worship with me and learn about a Jesus who can actually change your life?”
Only the real Jesus can change your life. If yours teaches something contrary to what Christ and the Apostles passed down to us, it is accursed.
Gal 1:6-9 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: (7) Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. (8) But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. (9) As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
“We’re tearing down false religions systems which tear people down to hell.”
And I’m sure you convert many, which is good.
“And I’m sure you convert many, which is good.”
I convert none! It is the work of God!
Joh_6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
The preaching of the Gospel by man is but the instrument God uses to gather His elect. If I was but the useful tool for God for the salvation of but one person, I would consider myself very blessed. Tearing down false religious systems, and sharing the Gospel, is a very worthwhile activity.
Listen, if I object to homosexual activist ideology, I'm not "tearing down homosexuals"...there's a difference between opposing the "ism" vs. the people themselves.
You accused me of "tearing down people"...that, in of itself, is a "critique." And now you're backing away from that critique? (Don't think so from your latest post)
And if it's not a critique, what is it? A compliment? A high five?
I’m asking the question honestly, without anger. If you (including the cut-and-paste responders on the thread) react angrily to a simple question about spreading the Word, that is your issue - See my point about logs in your eyes.
OK, disagreement, even when strongly stated, doesn't = anger. People on these threads are not worth expending "anger" over...so now you're superimposing an emotion inside me that was "news" to me...
1 Sam. 16:7 says that ONLY God sees the inside of a person -- man sees only the outside.
If you go back to post #14 to you, I placed a "chart" there...I wrote all that over a year ago...
If you look from the second column from the right, I wrote: This also becomes quite "rich" if the message is NOT to "judge" -- all as they engage in #3...judging others' inward motives, temperaments and dispositions!
I no sooner apply that to you in post #14 -- something I wrote over a year ago -- then what do you happen to do in post #32?...Why, you proceed to judge a complete stranger's inward temperants & dispositions. You don't know my emotions.
However, I can see how your approach might give greater glory to yourselves (pride).
And not only did I write over a year ago about this penchant for judging others' temperaments & dispositions, but I wrote: judging others' inward motives, temperaments and dispositions!
So you not only negatively judge my temperament & disposition (as with "anger"), but you openly negatively judge my motive ("pride").
Are you going to continue to claim that you are not a critique bend here?
How does tearing down a fellow Christians’belief in Jesus, bring them closer to the Lord?
Which "Christians" are you referencing? And be specific as to which verbiage used "tears down" those Christians?
Are you assuming every group written about in this thread is "Christian?" And upon what basis is that assumption made?
I am really at a loss to see how your approach gives greater glory to God
Could it be because you haven't fully studied Jesus' words...and have just engaged them buffet style?
Please review the words Jesus spoke that I cite in post #12... and then answer this question: Did Jesus give His Father glory with these words? Or did Jesus bring a lack of glory to His Father with these words?
Jesus tells us which Jesus to believe in... in the one who tells you things that come to pass- AND- he will point you to salvation.
Simple.
How does tearing me down — judging my inward motives, temperaments & dispositions — bring glory to your god?
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