More Mormons moving from 'Easter disconnect' to Christian worship services [Vanity]

Colofornian | March 13, 2013 | Colofornian

[Colofornian]

Free Republic can no longer post Salt Lake Tribune based threads...but we can still link to them. Just last week, the Trib ran this very significant article:

Mormons increasingly drawn to Holy Week rituals

In other words, Mormons are attending Christian church services during Holy Week! (And they love the services there!)

To understand this, you have to understand the backdrop -- the vacuum of Jesus and the cross within Mormonism:

1. BYU study: Disconnect between Mormons and Easter

In this article, published by the Mormon church owned Deseret News, it said that Easter has ”only 'lightly more planning than the Fourth of July,'

2. Preparing for Easter through Holy Week

From this article: While the LDS community does not formally observe Holy Week, the period from Palm Sunday to Easter morning… Suddenly I realized that my observance of Easter was rather pale by comparison…

For a fresh thread, see: Easter essays ['In the LDS church it never really hit me what Jesus did for me']

(Please also review:)

* What is the Significance of Easter for Mormons?

* Mormons have sub-par Easter services [testimony from a Mormon]

* Why don't Mormon's celebrate Easter? [Asked by a Mormon]

* Lent celebrated locally as Easter nears this month [Lent through eyes of Lds journalist]

Few Mormons wear crosses, depicting their aversion to it. For more on this, see:

* No-Cross Protocol ["New" Mormon tradition]

* Sunstone speaker attempts to explain LDS 'aversion' to cross [published by Mormon church owned Mormon Times]

[aMorePerfectUnion]

placemarker

[Colofornian]

And it came to pass THE FIRST BOOK OF NEPHI HIS REIGN AND MINISTRY CHAPTER 16

In this post of Elz'...he cites 1 Nephi 16...the opening book in the Book of Mormon...and how there are 31 "it came to pass" references in the first 35 verses of that chapter.

In fact, there are almost 1,500 "it came to pass" references in the original Book of Mormon...Joseph Smith himself realized it was overkill...and in 1837 took out 47 of these...but that was less than 4% of all the references!

(And btw, what gave Joseph Smith the right to edit out 47 references in the Book of Mormon in 1837...7 years after it was published...IF they were in the original mythical "gold plates"?)

Anyway, think about this: Why would a gold-etcher in ancient Book of Mormon take the time to etch out 31 "it came to pass" references in 35 verses?

And...when you hear what SOME of the alleged Book of Mormon etchers said about that process, ya wonder all the more:

* "I cannot write but a little of my words, because of the difficulty of engraving our words upon plates" (Jacob 4:1, Book of Mormon)

* ”if our plates had been sufficiently large we should have written in Hebrew” (Mormon 9:33)... [this was the "explanation" gave as to why a Hebrew people would write in the language of their enemies...actually not really a "language"...as nobody has ever heard of "reformed Egyptian."]

For more on this, please see especially the end of first post if you want to find out more about Joseph Smith the fanciful story-teller

[ejonesie22]

Well at least you are honest about being a Polytheism...

Very Greek and Roman empire...

[ejonesie22]

Oh wow...

Now that is classic Mormon projection.

[ejonesie22]

Tertullians was a convert, like Constatine, you sure you want to go there...

If so there will be other issues for you, like with all LDSers trying to make things fit for their fiction out of the work of the early fathers...

[ejonesie22]

So then is Christ just a nam or is he devine too?

[Elsie]

Didn’t Smith say my way or the sword....something about him being the next mohammad.

Well...

...the presidential campaign of Mormon Church founder Joseph Smith in 1844: “Challenging Democrat James Polk and Whig Henry Clay, Smith prophesied that if the U.S. Congress did not accede to his demands that ‘they shall be broken up as a government and God shall damn them.’

Smith viewed capturing the presidency as part of the mission of the church.

[Elsie]

Didn’t Smith say my way or the sword....something about him being the next mohammad.

Well...

“I Will Be a Second Mohammed”

In the heat of the Missouri “Mormon War” of 1838, Joseph Smith made the following claim, “I will be to this generation a second Mohammed, whose motto in treating for peace was ‘the Alcoran [Koran] or the Sword.’ So shall it eventually be with us—‘Joseph Smith or the Sword!’ ”[1]

It is most interesting that a self-proclaimed Christian prophet would liken himself to Mohammed, the founder of Islam. His own comparison invites us to take a closer look as well. And when we do, we find some striking—and troubling—parallels. Consider the following.

• Mohammed and Joseph Smith both had humble beginnings. Neither had formal religious connections or upbringing, and both were relatively uneducated. Both founded new religions by creating their own scriptures. In fact, followers of both prophets claim these scriptures are miracles since their authors were the most simple and uneducated of men.[2]

• Both prophets claim of having angel visitations, and of receiving divine revelation to restore pure religion to the earth again. Mohammed was told that both Jews and Christians had long since corrupted their scriptures and religion. In like manner, Joseph Smith was told that all of Christianity had become corrupt, and that consequently the Bible itself was no longer reliable. In both cases, this corruption required a complete restoration of both scripture and religion. Nothing which preceded either prophet could be relied upon any longer. Both prophets claim they were used of God to restore eternal truths which once existed on earth, but had been lost due to human corruption.

• Both prophets created new scripture which borrowed heavily from the Bible, but with a substantially new “spin.” In his Koran, Mohammed appropriates a number of Biblical themes and characters—but he changes the complete sense of many passages, claiming to “correct” the Bible. In so doing he changes many doctrines, introducing his own in their place. In like manner, Joseph Smith created the Book of Mormon, much of which is plagiarized directly from the King James Bible. Interestingly, the Book of Mormon claims that this same Bible has been substantially corrupted and is therefore unreliable. In addition, Joseph Smith went so far as to actually create his own version of the Bible itself, the “Inspired Version,” in which he both adds and deletes significant portions of text, claiming he is “correcting” it. In so doing he also changes many doctrines, introducing his own in their place.

• As a part of their new scriptural “spin,” both prophets saw themselves as prophesied in scripture, and both saw themselves as a continuation of a long line of Biblical prophets. Mohammed saw himself as a continuation of the ministry of Moses and Jesus. Joseph Smith saw himself as a successor to Enoch, Melchizedek, Joseph and Moses. Joseph Smith actually wrote himself into his own version of the Bible—by name.

• Both prophets held up their own scripture as superior to the Bible. Mohammed claimed that the Koran was a perfect copy of the original which was in heaven. The Koran is therefore held to be absolutely perfect, far superior to the Bible and superceding it. In like manner, Joseph Smith also made the following claim. “I told the Brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding its precepts, than by any other book.”[3]

• Despite their claim that the Bible was corrupt, both prophets admonished their followers to adhere to its teachings. An obvious contradiction, this led to selective acceptance of some portions and wholesale rejection of others. As a result, the Bible is accepted by both groups of followers only to the extent that it agrees with their prophet’s own superior revelation.

• Both Mohammed and Joseph Smith taught that true salvation was to be found only in their respective religions. Those who would not accept their message were considered “infidels,” pagans or Gentiles. In so doing, both prophets became the enemy of genuine Christianity, and have led many people away from the Christ of the Bible.

• Both prophets encountered fierce opposition to their new religions and had to flee from town to town because of threats on their lives. Both retaliated to this opposition by forming their own militias. Both ultimately set up their own towns as model societies.

• Both Mohammed and Joseph Smith left unclear instructions about their successors. The majority of Mohammed’s followers, Sunni Muslims, believe they were to elect their new leader, whereas the minority, Shiite Muslims, look to Alī ibn Abī Ṭālib, whom they consider Divinely appointed, as the rightful successor to Muhammad, and the first imam. (Ali was the cousin and son-in-law of the Islamic prophet Muhammad). Similarly, the majority of Joseph Smith's followers, Mormons, believed their next prophet should have been the existing leader of their quorum of twelve apostles, whereas the minority, RLDS, believed Joseph Smith's own son should have been their next prophet. Differences on this issue, and many others, have created substantial tension between these rival groups of each prophet.

• Mohammed taught that Jesus was just another of a long line of human prophets, of which he was the last. He taught that he was superior to Christ and superceded Him. In comparison, Joseph Smith also made the following claim.

“I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him, but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet.”[4] In light of these parallels, perhaps Joseph Smith's claim to be a second Mohammed unwittingly became his most genuine prophecy of all.

---

[1] Joseph Smith made this statement at the conclusion of a speech in the public square at Far West, Missouri on October 14, 1838. This particular quote is documented in Fawn M. Brodie, No Man Knows My History, second edition, (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1971), p. 230–231. Fawn Brodie’s footnote regarding this speech contains valuable information, and follows. “Except where noted, all the details of this chapter [16] are taken from the History of the [Mormon] Church. This speech, however, was not recorded there, and the report given here is based upon the accounts of seven men. See the affidavits of T.B. Marsh, Orson Hyde, George M. Hinkle, John Corrill, W.W. Phelps, Samson Avard, and Reed Peck in Correspondence, Orders, etc., pp. 57–9, 97–129. The Marsh and Hyde account, which was made on October 24, is particularly important. Part of it was reproduced in History of the [Mormon] Church, Vol. III, p. 167. See also the Peck manuscript, p. 80. Joseph himself barely mentioned the speech in his history; see Vol. III, p. 162.”

[2] John Ankerberg & John Weldon, The Facts on Islam, (Eugene, OR: Harvest House Publishers, 1998), pp.8–9. Eric Johnson, Joseph Smith & Muhammed, (El Cajon, CA: Mormonism Research Ministry, 1998), pp. 6–7.

[3] Documentary History of the [Mormon] Church, vol.4, pp.461.

[4] Documentary History of the [Mormon] Church, vol.6, pp.408–409.

[Elsie]

* "I cannot write but a little of my words, because of the difficulty of engraving our words upon plates" (Jacob 4:1, Book of Mormon)

---

The "Caractors" are the only tangible evidence in existence related to Smith's story.

No gold plates, no brass plates, no peep stones, no Urim and Thummim...

only these "Caractors," not a single one of which is in the purported languages.

---

Smith's translation of the Caractors. According to Martin Harris (Joseph Smith - History, 1:64), "I went to the city of New York, and presented the characters which had been translated, with the translation thereof, to Professor Charles Anthon, a gentleman celebrated for his literary attainments. Professor Anthon stated that the translation was correct, more so than any he had before seen translated from the Egyptian. I then showed him those which were not yet translated,* and he said they were Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac, and Arabic; and he said they were true characters."

Speak right up now in all truthfulness. Isn't it revealing how Smith started out making a stab at creating believable "caractors" but quckly gave up and produced nothing but squiggles, ending up wih a series of nothing more than crude little scribbles? Yet Professor Anthon supposedly translated them!

---

*Harris must have had two or three pieces of paper with him—one with characters and a translation of them (on the same paper or a separate one) and one with untranslated characters—quite likely the "Caractors." Some Mormon "scholars" have gone out on a limb, sawed it off, and knocked themselves out trying to translate from these true Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac, and Arabic characters a segment that would correspond with a verse from 1 Nephi.

---

Modern-day experts in Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac, and Arabic. In 1829, any knowledge of these languages possessed by U.S. scholars would have been rudimentary at best. Expertise in them has vastly improved since then. So go ahead, do it. Get any modern expert in these languages to identify which of these "Caractors" are Egyptian, Chaldaic, Assyriac and Arabic. Better still, accept the claim of Mormon apologists that Anthon did indeed so testify and that his appraisal of the Caractors was correct. (Op. cit, pp. 73-75)

Save your money! Samples of Assyriac/Aramaic and Arabic writing:

 

What say you? Which of Smith's "Caractors" resemble the Assyriac and Arabic ones? No need to pay experts for their analysis. A child could accurately check this out. These writing systems have remained constant for well over 3000 years.

[Elsie]

But JS did happen to PROPHECY the computer mouse!

3rd row; 3rd caractor

[Elsie]

Polynesian...

?

Don’t some of them have problems discerning an imaginary friend?

[catfish1957]

DANG!!!!!!!! I didn’t know that.

[greyfoxx39]

God bless Pope Francis. I'll wager there is tearing of hair and gnashing of teeth in Salt Lake City tonight with the election of a latin American Pope....the fertile fields of latin Catholicism that mormon leaders depend on for mormon converts will very likely be quite barren for the planting of Joseph Smith's lies in the future.

God does make His wonders to perform, don't He?

[svcw]

Very good point.

[svcw]

One of those ‘Caractor’ looks like a birthday cake.

[ejonesie22]

Amen, and Christ’s blessing upon him and all our Christian Brothers and Sisters in the Catholic Church.

[greyfoxx39]

Amen, and Christ’s blessing upon him and all our Christian Brothers and Sisters in the Catholic Church.

Amen and amen.

[Old Yeller]

Jesus Christ is the Son of God the Father .... just like he said! There’s no mystery here.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:1

The "Word" is Jesus. Jesus is God.

[Religion Moderator]

Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.

[narses]

teppe wrote:

I’m a Momon, and I pay very little attention to the Easter Bunny!

My devotion is to the living Jesus Christ, my Lord and my Savior, the son of the living God the Father. And my goal is to merit and maintain the Holy Ghost in my heart in worship my Father in Heaven. If that’s not enough for you .... so be it, it is enough for my Savior Jesus Christ.

Why would I want to attend another church service and worship a medieval definition of Christ who is ....

....three in one and one in three but never really one but never really three, whos circumference is everywhere, center is nowhere, so large he fills the universe, so small he dwells in hearts and all the while without body, parts or passions..... (need I go on?)

Sorry guys, but the truth and work of our Lord Jesus Christ will continue either with or without your support.