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To: Former Fetus
"Honestly, what difference does it make to our salvation whether Mary remained a virgin or not?"

Mary's virginity makes no difference to our salvation but it has a huge impact on church doctrine.

I was raised Catholic but married in an evangelical Christian church and didn't want to put my new bride through the burden of becoming Catholic. It took only a couple months of adult Bible study to convince me that I could never subscribe to Catholic doctrine again.

There is no evidence in the Bible that Mary was a perpetual virgin. There is lots of circumstantial evidence that she could not have remained a virgin after Jesus birth. To wit:

* There are two Biblical passages which clearly note that Joseph did not know his wife until she gave birth to the child by the Holy Spirit.

* Jesus was raised as a carpenter under the tutelage of his father. It's hard to imagine that, after the Savior's birth, Joseph would not have engaged in normal martial relations with his wife. Joseph did not vanish after Jesus' birth.

* There are multiple NT passages that refer to Jesus' brothers, in particular, James, who did not believe his brother was the Messiah until after his brother's resurrection. At least 10 passages.

But the real issue I had with Catholic doctrine is when the church calls Mary the "co-redemtrix," meaning that we Christians can be redeemed EITHER through Jesus or his mother. There is zero Biblical basis for this Catholic doctine. The first time I read that passage in John 14:6, "No one comes to the Father except through me," all the scales over my eyes fell away.

So why did the Catholic church of old insist that Mary was a perpetual virgin? Probably because a perpetual virgin -- with those notions of forever being clean -- was the only way to justify her role as an equal path to salvation as Jesus himself.

Sorry, Catholics, I'm not intending to create discord here, but it does matter whether Mary was a virgin. The only path to salvation is through Christ, not his mother. She was neither a perpetual virgin, nor a path to salvation.

9 posted on 02/26/2013 10:14:21 PM PST by tom h
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To: tom h
"But the real issue I had with Catholic doctrine is when the church calls Mary the "co-redemtrix," meaning that we Christians can be redeemed EITHER through Jesus or his mother"

That is not what it means at all.

10 posted on 02/27/2013 2:21:42 AM PST by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: tom h; All

http://www.fisheaters.com/mary.html


11 posted on 02/27/2013 2:29:14 AM PST by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: tom h; All

http://www.cin.org/users/james/questions/q055.htm


12 posted on 02/27/2013 2:30:40 AM PST by johngrace (I am a 1 John 4! Christian- declared at every Sunday Mass , Divine Mercy and Rosary prayers!)
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To: tom h
Mary's virginity makes no difference to our salvation but it has a huge impact on church doctrine

Like you, I am also a former Catholic, married to an evangelical Christian, who has seen how unscriptural Catholic doctrine can be. I agree with you, the virginity of Mary does have a huge impact on Catholic doctrine. I was just trying to tell Salvation that we were arguing about doctrinal points that are irelevant to salvation, but there is a thin line on whether a false doctrine is just silly or actually an impediment to being born again. I don't know which side of the line the virginity of Mary falls, so I pray daily for my still-Catholic family.

Probably because a perpetual virgin -- with those notions of forever being clean -- was the only way to justify her role as an equal path to salvation as Jesus himself

You got me here. Anybody who depends on anybody other than Jesus for salvation is NOT saved. And I say this perfectly aware that it includes my family. Maybe that's why the Lord has put such a burden on me about their salvation... Maybe it is time to stop "thinking" and start talking to them... but you know very well how defensive Catholics can be!

15 posted on 02/27/2013 5:47:29 AM PST by Former Fetus (Saved by grace through faith)
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To: tom h

**Mary’s virginity makes no difference to our salvation **

Without Mary would Christ have been born?


16 posted on 02/27/2013 2:18:49 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: tom h

**There are multiple NT passages that refer to Jesus’ brothers**

And how may times does St. Paul refer to people in his letters as ‘brothers’??

It was common language back then.


17 posted on 02/27/2013 2:20:14 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: tom h

“co” in Latin means “with”

Without Mary there would have been no birth of Jesus.


18 posted on 02/27/2013 2:21:19 PM PST by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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