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How to Stay in the LDS Church After a Major Trial of Faith [Internal Mormon critic]
Slideshare.net ^
| Oct. 12, 2007
| John P. Dehlin
Posted on 02/17/2013 8:56:40 AM PST by Colofornian
Staying is not for everyone...
In spite of 32 years of church education, I didn't ever learn...
* "Peepstone in hat" treasure digging and translation of Book of Mormon * Credibility issues w/the 3 and 8 witnesses * Multiple lst vision stories...the changing narrative of founding stories * Book of Mormon historicity issues * Book of Abraham papyrus issues * Joseph Smith having 30+ wives, 8+...married to other men at the time they were sealed to Joseph * Post-manifesto polygamy, and polygamy as a requirement for exaltation * ...depth of the Temple/Masonry connections * ...basics of Mountain Meadows (though lots about Haun's Mill)... * ...extreme racist statements and opposition to civil rights by top church leaders
SNIP
"I have been VERY naive in my faith with what I have been taught. In the last year...I started to realize that my testimony, the testimony that I held to so very close to my soul, was being attacked by what looked and acted like truth [and] that contradicted what I was taught. I began to feel betrayed."
"My immediate reaction was one of going to my close friends and family...all that did was make my relationships with them strain to a new high. I realized I was now on a island, all by myself, no one to talk to or pull from..."
"And then something happened just recently, the Stake President called me to the Stake High Council.
...very reluctantly, I accepted the call.
So here I am, as a member of a Stake High Council with SERIOUS issues..."
"I have entered a very dark place. I refer to it as a dark place because what I believed was light, now seems dark."
"The church is either exactly what it claims to be, or the biggest fraud ever perpetrated upon mankind."
(Excerpt) Read more at slideshare.net ...
TOPICS: History; Other non-Christian; Religion & Culture; Theology
KEYWORDS: inman; johndehlin; lds; mormonism; mormonstories
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To: Colofornian; All
Actually Chrisislam is worse...
21
posted on
02/17/2013 9:38:41 AM PST
by
KevinDavis
(Islam is the biggest threat in the world..)
To: KevinDavis
Of course you can attack anyone based on BS, please do so, right after you post the BS - k?
22
posted on
02/17/2013 9:40:14 AM PST
by
svcw
(Why is one cell on another planet considered life, and in the womb it is not.)
To: svcw; All
I don’t care.. I’m tried of people bashing Mormonism.. Since I have family members who is part of the LDS.. They are no threat.. They are not doing suicide bombings.. They are not doing Sharia patrols..
23
posted on
02/17/2013 9:41:10 AM PST
by
KevinDavis
(Islam is the biggest threat in the world..)
To: KevinDavis
So am I, but I can multitask.
If you can’t and Islam is your focus why even post here if you don’t “Frakin care”
24
posted on
02/17/2013 9:43:37 AM PST
by
ejonesie22
(8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
To: KevinDavis
I would disagree, you are here and posting about how much you do not care.
This is the religion forum discussing religion, if you do not care don’t join the thread.
Just as a side note, I have mormon family and friends, as well which is why I care.
25
posted on
02/17/2013 9:44:18 AM PST
by
svcw
(Why is one cell on another planet considered life, and in the womb it is not.)
To: KevinDavis
Then you do “Frakin care”. Well at least be straight forward about it...
And there are many other threats to ones total well being other than physical violence...
26
posted on
02/17/2013 9:48:56 AM PST
by
ejonesie22
(8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
To: teppe; svcw
>>Oh my .... Another chance to revel in smearing a Christ believing people whom you doctrinally do not agree with!<<
What Christ do they believe in? Its not the Christ of scripture as inspired by the Holy Spirit.
27
posted on
02/17/2013 9:57:47 AM PST
by
CynicalBear
(For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. 1 Corinthians 2:2)
Comment #28 Removed by Moderator
To: KevinDavis
Oh my! Language like that on a religion thread? Bu bye!
29
posted on
02/17/2013 10:03:40 AM PST
by
CynicalBear
(For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. 1 Corinthians 2:2)
To: KevinDavis
hum?
Well, God Almighty said we are to judge everything against His Word and to call out false prophets and teachings.
The only thing we can not do is judge someones Salvation, that is God’s preview alone.
So, KD please provide one post that has said they are judging some ones soul?
And again, if you do not care why are you here posting that you do not care.
It’s simple just avoid the religion forum. K?
30
posted on
02/17/2013 10:04:28 AM PST
by
svcw
(Why is one cell on another planet considered life, and in the womb it is not.)
To: CynicalBear; All
31
posted on
02/17/2013 10:06:48 AM PST
by
KevinDavis
(Islam is the biggest threat in the world..)
To: KevinDavis
32
posted on
02/17/2013 10:12:15 AM PST
by
ejonesie22
(8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
To: Colofornian
“Each of us has to face the matter — either the Church is true, or it is a fraud. There is no middle ground. It is the Church and Kingdom of God or it is nothing.”
These are false statements. The LDS church IS in the middle ground between truth and falsehood as it incorporates some of both into doctrines. That is what makes it confusing. There are obvious truths (LDS teach the Ten Commandments) and some apparent falsehoods (Joseph Smith as the subject of worship and praise) also taught. The LDS leadership is caught between moving toward truth and maintaining the status quo. Either way they move some will be offended. Sitting on the fence is the wrong thing to do here, but do they have the fortitude to initiate change???
33
posted on
02/17/2013 10:28:06 AM PST
by
STYRO
(War sucks. Living in slavery sucks even worse.)
To: Colofornian
Years ago, Madeline Murray O’Hair was on the LARRY KING LIVE SHOW. I personally saw the show on TV so it is not second hand. It was before she took her dirt nap.
She said that the best atheists were former MORMONS and CATHOLICS.
34
posted on
02/17/2013 10:52:20 AM PST
by
Ruy Dias de Bivar
( Too old to cut the mustard any more.)
To: KevinDavis
“I dont care.. Im tried of people bashing Mormonism..”
Get some rest, we’ll wait.
“Since I have family members who is part of the LDS..”
So, you are clear that you are not objective?”
“They are no threat..”
Not talking about MORMONS. Talking about MORMONISM. Mormonism is a threat to the soul.
“They are not doing suicide bombings.. They are not doing Sharia patrols..”
Now, you are veering off into silliness. No one accused MORMONISM of terroristic crimes - though there was a day - just of heresy and leading people into a Christless eternity.
35
posted on
02/17/2013 11:57:56 AM PST
by
aMorePerfectUnion
(Gone rogue, gone Galt, gone international, gone independent. Gone.)
To: teppe
You need to get a grip on the difference between historical truth and “doctrinal differences”. Doctrine that is based on historical falsehood is false. History, as presented in Mormon documents, is false. That is the problem with Mormonism.
36
posted on
02/17/2013 1:24:28 PM PST
by
Chaguito
To: Colofornian
The church is either exactly what it claims to be, or the biggest fraud ever perpetrated upon mankind." Oh, it's a fraud alright, but not the "biggest" one ever perpetrated upon mankind. For that designation solely belongs to Islam.
37
posted on
02/17/2013 3:01:23 PM PST
by
boatbums
(God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
To: teppe
svcw ... you need to invite all the gang!Go to RESTORNU's homepage and ping ALL of HER MORMON freeper friends that you find there.
I'm sure their combined logic and force of intellect will cause mass confusion amoung us Flying Inmen...
The
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
SECTION 71
Revelation given to Joseph Smith the Prophet and Sidney Rigdon, at Hiram, Ohio, December 1, 1831. HC 1: 238239. The Prophet had continued to translate the Bible with Sidney Rigdon as his scribe until this revelation was received, at which time it was temporarily laid aside so as to enable them to fulfill the instruction given herein. The brethren were to go forth to preach in order to allay the unfriendly feelings that had developed against the Church as a result of the publication of some newspaper articles by Ezra Booth, who had apostatized.
14, Joseph Smith and Sidney Rigdon are sent forth to proclaim the gospel; 511, Enemies of the saints shall be confounded.
1 Behold, thus saith the Lord unto you my servants Joseph Smith, Jun., and Sidney Rigdon, that the time has verily come that it is necessary and expedient in me that you should open your mouths in proclaiming my gospel, the things of the kingdom, expounding the mysteries thereof out of the scriptures, according to that portion of Spirit and power which shall be given unto you, even as I will.
2 Verily I say unto you, proclaim unto the world in the regions round about, and in the church also, for the space of a season, even until it shall be made known unto you.
3 Verily this is a mission for a season, which I give unto you.
4 Wherefore, labor ye in my vineyard. Call upon the inhabitants of the earth, and bear record, and prepare the way for the commandments and revelations which are to come.
5 Now, behold this is wisdom; whoso readeth, let him understand and receive also;
6 For unto him that receiveth it shall be given more abundantly, even power.
7 Wherefore, confound your enemies; call upon them to meet you both in public and in private; and inasmuch as ye are faithful their shame shall be made manifest.
8 Wherefore, let them bring forth their strong reasons against the Lord.
9 Verily, thus saith the Lord unto youthere is no weapon that is formed against you shall prosper;
10 And if any man lift his voice against you he shall be confounded in mine own due time.
11 Wherefore, keep my commandments; they are true and faithful. Even so. Amen.
38
posted on
02/17/2013 6:24:40 PM PST
by
Elsie
(Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
To: KevinDavis
Sorry I have every right to attack someone when I see BS regardless of the type of topic..Here ya go!
Have a BALL!!!
THE FIRST BOOK OF NEPHI
HIS REIGN AND MINISTRY
CHAPTER 16
The wicked take the truth to be hardLehis sons marry the daughters of IshmaelThe Liahona guides their course in the wildernessMessages from the Lord are written on the Liahona from time to timeIshmael dies; his family murmur because of afflictions. Between 600 and 592 B.C.
1 And now it came to pass that after I, Nephi, had made an end of speaking to my brethren, behold they said unto me: Thou hast declared unto us hard things, more than we are able to bear.
2
And it came to pass that I said unto them that I knew that I had spoken
ahard things against the wicked, according to the truth; and the righteous have I justified, and testified that they should be lifted up at the last day; wherefore, the
bguilty taketh the
ctruth to be hard, for it
dcutteth them to the very center.
3 And now my brethren, if ye were righteous and were willing to hearken to the truth, and give heed unto it, that ye might
awalk uprightly before God, then ye would not murmur because of the truth, and say: Thou speakest hard things against us.
4 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did exhort my brethren, with all diligence, to keep the commandments of the Lord.
5
And it came to pass that they did
ahumble themselves before the Lord; insomuch that I had joy and great hopes of them, that they would walk in the paths of righteousness.
6 Now, all these things were said and done as my father dwelt in a tent in the
avalley which he called Lemuel.
7
And it came to pass that I, Nephi, took one of the
adaughters of Ishmael to
bwife; and also, my brethren took of the
cdaughters of Ishmael to wife; and also
dZoram took the eldest daughter of Ishmael to wife.
8 And thus my father had fulfilled all the
acommandments of the Lord which had been given unto him. And also, I, Nephi, had been blessed of the Lord exceedingly.
9
And it came to passthat the voice of the Lord spake unto my father by night, and commanded him that on the morrow he should take his
ajourney into the wilderness.
10 And it came to passthat as my father arose in the morning, and went forth to the tent door, to his great astonishment he beheld upon the ground a round aball of curious workmanship; and it was of fine brass. And within the ball were two spindles; and the one bpointed the way whither we should go into the wilderness.
11
And it came to passthat we did gather together whatsoever things we should carry into the wilderness, and all the remainder of our provisions which the Lord had given unto us; and we did take
aseed of every kind that we might carry into the wilderness.
12 And it came to pass that we did take our tents and depart into the wilderness, across the river Laman.
13
And it came to pass that we traveled for the space of four days, nearly a south-southeast direction, and we did pitch our tents again; and we did call the name of the place
aShazer.
14
And it came to pass that we did take our bows and our arrows, and go forth into the wilderness to slay food for our families; and after we had slain food for our families we did return again to our families in the wilderness, to the place of Shazer. And we did go forth again in the wilderness, following the same direction, keeping in the most fertile parts of the wilderness, which were in the borders near the
aRed Sea.
15
And it came to pass that we did travel for the space of many days,
aslaying food by the way, with our bows and our arrows and our stones and our slings.
16 And we did follow the adirections of the ball, which led us in the more fertile parts of the wilderness.
17 And after we had traveled for the space of many days, we did pitch our tents for the space of a time, that we might again rest ourselves and obtain food for our families.
18
And it came to pass that as I, Nephi, went forth to slay food, behold, I did break my bow, which was made of fine
asteel; and after I did break my bow, behold, my brethren were angry with me because of the loss of my bow, for we did obtain no food.
19 And it came to pass that we did return without food to our families, and being much fatigued, because of their journeying, they did suffer much for the want of food.
20
And it came to pass that Laman and Lemuel and the sons of Ishmael did begin to murmur exceedingly, because of their sufferings and afflictions in the wilderness; and also my father began to murmur against the Lord his God; yea, and they were all exceedingly sorrowful, even that they did
amurmur against the Lord.
21
And it came to pass that I, Nephi, having been afflicted with my brethren because of the loss of my bow, and their bows having lost their
asprings, it began to be exceedingly difficult, yea, insomuch that we could obtain no food.
22
And it came to pass I, Nephi, did speak much unto my brethren, because they had hardened their hearts again, even unto
acomplaining against the Lord their God.
23
And it came to pass I, Nephi, did
amake out of wood a bow, and out of a straight stick, an arrow; wherefore, I did arm myself with a bow and an arrow, with a sling and with stones. And I said unto my
bfather: Whither shall I go to obtain food?
24
And it came to pass that he did
ainquire of the Lord, for they had
bhumbled themselves because of my words; for I did say many things unto them in the energy of my soul.
25
And it came to pass that the voice of the Lord came unto my father; and he was truly
achastened because of his murmuring against the Lord, insomuch that he was brought down into the depths of sorrow.
26 And it came to pass that the voice of the Lord said unto him: Look upon the ball, and behold the things which are written.
27 And it came to pass that when my father beheld the things which were awritten upon the ball, he did fear and tremble exceedingly, and also my brethren and the sons of Ishmael and our wives.
28 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, beheld the pointers which were in the ball, that they did work according to the afaith and diligence and heed which we did give unto them.
29 And there was also written upon them a new writing, which was plain to be read, which did give us
aunderstanding concerning the ways of the Lord; and it was written and changed from time to time, according to the faith and diligence which we gave unto it. And thus we see that by
bsmall means the Lord can bring about great things.
30 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did go forth up into the top of the mountain, according to the adirections which were given upon the ball.
31
And it came to pass that I did slay wild
abeasts, insomuch that I did obtain food for our families.
32
And it came to pass that I did return to our tents, bearing the beasts which I had slain; and now when they beheld that I had obtained
afood, how great was their joy! And it came to pass that they did humble themselves before the Lord, and did give thanks unto him.
33 And it came to pass that we did again take our journey, traveling nearly the same course as in the beginning; and after we had traveled for the space of many days we did pitch our tents again, that we might tarry for the space of a time.
34
And it came to pass that
aIshmael died, and was buried in the place which was called
bNahom.
35
And it came to pass that the daughters of Ishmael did
amourn exceedingly, because of the loss of their father, and because of their
bafflictions in the wilderness; and they did
cmurmur against my father, because he had brought them out of the land of Jerusalem, saying: Our father is dead; yea, and we have wandered much in the wilderness, and we have suffered much affliction, hunger, thirst, and fatigue; and after all these sufferings we must perish in the wilderness with hunger.
36 And thus they did murmur against my father, and also against me; and they were desirous to
areturn again to Jerusalem.
37 And Laman said unto Lemuel and also unto the sons of Ishmael: Behold, let us
aslay our father, and also our brother Nephi, who has taken it upon him to be our
bruler and our teacher, who are his elder brethren.
38 Now, he says that the Lord has talked with him, and also that
aangels have ministered unto him. But behold, we know that he lies unto us; and he tells us these things, and he worketh many things by his cunning arts, that he may deceive our eyes, thinking, perhaps, that he may lead us away into some strange wilderness; and after he has led us away, he has thought to make himself a king and a ruler over us, that he may do with us according to his will and pleasure. And after this manner did my brother Laman
bstir up their hearts to
canger.
39
And it came to pass that the Lord was with us, yea, even the voice of the Lord came and did speak many words unto them, and did
achasten them exceedingly; and after they were chastened by the voice of the Lord they did turn away their anger, and did repent of their sins, insomuch that the Lord did bless us again with food, that we did not perish.
39
posted on
02/17/2013 6:27:06 PM PST
by
Elsie
(Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
To: KevinDavis
Again I dont FRAKIN CARE!!!!! SURE.....
That's why you shout...
If you have cable TV, there wont be much on to watch.
If there isnt much on to watch, you will answer your door whenever someone rings.
If you open your door, you will see mormons.
If you talk to mormons, they will trick you into praying about whether something is true.
If you rely on your feelings, you may become a mormon.
If you become a mormon, you will have to wear magic underwear!
If you wear magic underwear, people will immediately label you as a cultist.
DONT be a cultist!
Get DirectTV.
40
posted on
02/17/2013 6:29:13 PM PST
by
Elsie
(Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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