HMMmm..
It appears that you truly ARE 'spirited' alright; but HOW can we prove you're Irish?
.
Posted on 02/13/2013 4:44:23 AM PST by spirited irish
Thank you so much for this engaging essay, dear spirited irish!
That LDs and/or Mormonism is in fact a very cleverly disguised nature religion outwardly dressed in Biblical language is definitively revealed in its’ embrace of pre-existent matter together with its’ rejection of creation ex nihilo.
In Romans Paul distinguishes nature systems from supernatural Christian theism when he points out that there are only two ultimate sources for all religious and philosophical beliefs around the world and over time. Paul differentiates these two when he says that men will either worship and serve creation (which includes the cosmos and the planet on which the LDs deity supposedly exists) or they will worship and serve the supernatural God of creation.
LDs then is a nature religion while Marx’s dialectical materialism is a nature system. Communism is heaven brought to earth, making it a nature ideology. Darwinism is grounded on philosophical materialism, hence it too is a nature system.
You sure blather a lot in trying to bash the ONLY true Christian religion now on planet Earth!
--MormonDude(When would be a good time for a couple of our well trained young folks to stop by your home and more fully explain to you and your loving family the Restored Gospel©?)
You sure blather a lot in trying to bash the ONLY true Christian religion now on planet Earth!”
Spirited: According to the simple-minded, the ignorant, the unstable and desolate, such “blathering” is the work of hateful, backward, anti-scientific, narrow-minded bigots. By this reckoning, you are the greater “blatherer” (in this thread) than I :-)
HMMmm..
It appears that you truly ARE 'spirited' alright; but HOW can we prove you're Irish?
.
55 “Where, O death, is your victory?
Where, O death, is your sting?”
56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
58 Therefore, my dear brothers and sisters, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.
If she gets that wrong why trust what else she says?
If she gets that wrong why trust what else she says?
Spirited: If she got that wrong, hence cannot be trusted, then the early Church Fathers got it wrong, as did Moses who received it as revelation from God, thus none of them-—including God-—can be trusted. Since you presume to know why ex nihilo is wrong then perhaps you will tell us why you believe it is wrong and what you believe is right?
Good luck with that. Our friend is one of the stunt Mormns, poster who is Mormon but likes to play games and not say they are LDS.
Ha!
I've been accused of that myself; but none of your Hateful BIGOTS has EVER been able to lay a glove on me!
--MormonDude(Maybe THIS year I'll finally get my TR!)
Dunham would be NOTHIN' without ME!
I am certain that you are sincere, but you’re just as wrong and your posse is as ignorant as they come. They actually think to know - blind leading the blind and all that.
The Church Fathers didn’t say what you think they said. Read them yourself. I have, but more importantly read your Bible.
Genesis 1:1 - http://bible.cc/genesis/1-1.htm
Genesis 1:2 - http://bible.cc/genesis/1-2.htm
No mention of creation ex nihilo. That’s utter nonsense read into the text by godless men who thought to know the mind of God. The Near Eastern peoples considered a God who tamed chaos to be greater than a god who created something from nothing. Verse one tells you what will happen, verse two tells you the current state, and the action starts in verse three.
There is nothing in the creation story to indicate that the Earth is unique, solitary, the only one of its kind, nor does the text indicate what was there beforehand. For the most part the Bible is silent on any even prior to Gen. 1:1.
The writer is ignorant, apparently intentionally and she wants to drag you with her. Don’t go.
From your link, the very first sentence of the Holy Bible.
No “arranged, fixed, organized, rebuilt, repaired,” it says CREATED.”
So please explain to this ignorant godless posse member how created becomes tamed the chaos. And for bonus points where did the raw materials come from and who or what created that if God just waltz up and reorganized things.
Oh and the “Earth is not unique” it is actually, but that does not mean there are not similar worlds as science is showing us even now. God CREATED the HEAVENS and the Earth.
I await the non LDS LDS answer.
Your comprehension skills are very sorely lacking. “In the beginning God created heaven and earth” means that “before” God created,
“God was all that there was - there was no empty space or a dark void or non-existence, and he himself is both “pure and eternal existence and the source of all other existence, which is derived from and dependent on his existence.” (”Is Creatio Ex Nihilo A Post-Biblical Invention? An Examination Of Gerhard May’s Proposal,” Paul Copan, Trinity Journal 17.1; Spring 1996)
With Irenaeus, the doctrine of creatio ex nihilo was well established. He also argued that the world (matter) was not coeternal with God:
“But the things established are distinct from Him who has established them, and what [things] have been made from Him who has made them. For He is Himself uncreated, both without beginning and end, and lacking nothing. He is Himself sufficient for this very thing, existence; but the things which have been made by Him have received a beginning... He indeed who made all things can alone, together with His Word, properly be termed God and Lord; but the things which have been made cannot have this term applied to them, neither should they justly assume that appellation which belongs to the Creator.”
The Fourth Lateran Council of 1215 formally declared:
“We firmly believe and simply confess that there is only one true God ... the Creator of all things visible and invisible, spiritual and corporeal; who from the very beginning of time by His omnipotent power created out of nothing [de nihilo condidit] both the spiritual beings and the corporeal.” (ibid, Copan)
The Westminister Confession of Faith (1646) asserts that,
“It pleased God ... in the beginning, to create or make of nothing the world, and all things therein” (IV.I; ibid)
Whether you are sincere or not, in your presumptuous ignorance you are blindly leading however many souls you have influence over, right into the pit.
Correct, but it doesn’t say created from “nothing”. See here:http://biblesuite.com/hebrew/1254.htm
There is nothing to indicate creation from “nothing”. That’s my point. You’re imposing a philosophy on the Scriptures where the words don’t say what you are saying they say. You also cannot make a statement as to events prior to Gen. 1:1. It simply isn’t in the Bible.
I don’t think you’re godless. I believe you are sincere, but ignorant. Ignorance can be cured through reading the Bible and discussing it like we’re doing now. I believe you want godliness and dislike its absence. The path is through the Bible.
The second error is misinterpreting the word “beginning”. At the beginning of what? God’s beginning? The earth’s beginning? This eons beginning? There is no reason to believe that this creation is singular or unique. The verses in Genesis simply don’t state that at all. That again is eisegesis.
Now be careful, those are all Godless men by LDS standards.
Let’s stick to the Bible. I don’t accept the beliefs of men whether many or few or in councils or out. Why would I accept what they say over the near eastern philosophy of creation from chaos as being greater than creation from nothing? You cannot start with a hypothesis and then force the Bible to support it. A plain reading will help:
Here’s the word written “in the beginning”: http://biblesuite.com/hebrew/7225.htm
So the entire purpose of Gen. 1:1 is to simply state that here’s what is about to happen at the start. Nothing has happened yet. It is an introductory statement used to focus the mind on the verses following. It states that at the start God created (http://biblesuite.com/hebrew/1254.htm with the sense being fashioned/formed like an artist would stone or clay, etc.) the heavens and the earth. Nothing has yet occured in the narrative.
Next is Gen 1:2 and that describes the first state: http://bible.cc/genesis/1-2.htm namely that until the Spirit of God moved or acted the earth was void/formless/empty - later we see that this means without life. From the reading H2O exists and is perhaps separated by a pangeaic form of land. It’s not certain. Then 1:3 statement on light which is open to interpretation. The action begins.
Ex nihilo is eisegesis and not something you take away from the actual document or writing. The Bible is plain. Back away from your preconceived notions and you’ll see.
There is nothing in the Biblical text to state that the earth in its void/formless/empty state is now brought into existance or was there to be worked on already. It is presumptuous to state so or to believe that such existance undermines the power, authority or majesty of God.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.