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To: FatherofFive
"Look at the Church in context of Scripture."

Ok, lets. :)

"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. Mat 5:14-15

"So here Christ says His Church will be visible.

umm no. That's absolutely not what He's saying. That's obviously what you want it to say, but notta. Jesus is instructing His followers to be good examples by doing good works. He's telling them to be actively engaged in doing good so that people will see them doing good. By doing good works they glorify God The Father.

This goes hand in hand with Jesus prophetic statement of "By their fruits ye shall know them." Pretty simple.

"One body and one Spirit: as you are called in one hope of your calling. One Lord, one faith, one baptism.” Eph 4:3-5

Agreed.

"The Church is to be one, not many. “And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” Mat 6:18

"Here Christ says his Church will not be destroyed."

No. It doesn't say that at all. A very misquoted scripture. Probably the most misquoted in the whole Bible. The "upon this rock" that Christ is referring to, is the scripture before this one.

Matt 16:15
15 He saith unto them, But whom say aye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Then he say:
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

The rock which He will build his Church will be the revealing of the divinity of Jesus Christ by His Father in Heaven by way of the Holy Ghost. Which is the subject of the whole conversation!

Which makes perfect sense. However, claiming to build His Church on a man, especially one that is going to deny Him three times, makes no sense at all.

The gates of hell will never and could never prevail against the Holy Ghost sent by God The Father. Which is what Christ is telling Peter and every single person that has ever read that passage.

Here Christ says, and Paul reaffirms, that the Church will always teach the TRUTH.

You're assuming that this means the Catholic church. Unfortunately, history and the Bible say this just isn't the case. I'll get to this in a minute.

Amos 8
12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the Lord, and shall not find it.

Amos prophesies about the death of the Messiah and the time after. No where in the world will the word of the Lord be found.

2 Timothy 1:15

15 This thou knowest, that all they which are in Asia be turned away from me; of whom are Phygellus and Hermogenes.

Paul saw it happen right before his eyes. At that time Asia was what is now the western side of Turkey. Ephesus was the capital.

Jesus Himself prophecied about it happening.

If God had recognized Linus as being the head of the Church He would have continued the revelations after the death of Peter. But He didn't. He went to the one whom He really recognized and that was John. And there in 70AD John received a direct revelation from God. Linus didn't.

Then it was over. Men went on to create a church on their own. Jesus commanded us to bless our enemies but the Popes throughout history have murdered, tortured, and oppressed by the millions anyone that dared contradict their religion.

Call it anti-Catholic if you want. But, documented history isn't anti anything. It's just fact. It is, what it is. Nothing more.

I see nothing in history that leads me to conclude that the Catholic church is the continuation of Christ's church.

And by your own words: Here Christ says, and Paul reaffirms, that the Church will always teach the TRUTH.

I agree. As the scripture says, "Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them."

So when I examine the "fruits" of the Catholic church and I see 1500 years of murder, torture, corruption, and general mayhem...and today of institutional homosexuality among their priests and the church itself covering up widespread pedophilia among their priests...I don't see that as the church Jesus calls His. I know.....call me picky. :-)

So if were going to pick the new Pope, I would guess he would have to conform to the Biblical standard of a Bishop, right?

1 Timothy 3:2
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

hmmm might be a problem. :-)
87 posted on 02/11/2013 8:04:15 PM PST by MeOnTheBeach
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To: MeOnTheBeach
So when I examine the "fruits" of the Catholic church and I see 1500 years of murder, torture, corruption, and general mayhem..

You see what you want to see.

You don't see the church that built the whole Christian civilization of Western Europe, without which Christianity simply wouldn't have survived the Islamic onslaught, and we would be arguing today about the Koran, not the Bible.

You don't see 2000 years of saints who are universally recognized as examples of profound Christian discipleship.

You don't see theologians like Aquinas and Augustine and Leo whose teaching inspires Protestants and Catholics alike to this day.

You don't see the Church that brought Christ to nations from India to Japan to Mexico before North America settlement began.

You see what you want to see, a black legend intended to promote hatred and suspicion. You see what you want to see.

90 posted on 02/11/2013 8:23:03 PM PST by Campion ("Social justice" begins in the womb)
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To: MeOnTheBeach
The rock which He will build his Church will be the revealing of the divinity of Jesus Christ by His Father in Heaven by way of the Holy Ghost.

Nonsense.

If you can deny not only the obvious subject change denoted by "And I say also unto thee," but a play on words so strong it even survives a change of language, you can call light, darkness, and good, evil.

100 posted on 02/11/2013 9:07:25 PM PST by papertyger
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To: MeOnTheBeach
So if were going to pick the new Pope, I would guess he would have to conform to the Biblical standard of a Bishop, right?

Perfect example of "Christ-lam." Make yourself the supreme arbiter of God's word, then attack those who dissent.....

101 posted on 02/11/2013 9:13:09 PM PST by papertyger
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