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What If We ARE Alone? Discuss Implications if Earth has ONLY Intelligent Life in the Universe
Self | February 8, 2013 | PJ-Comix

Posted on 02/08/2013 8:37:47 AM PST by PJ-Comix

Most people seem to assume that the universe is chock full of intelligent life. But what if we ARE alone in the Universe? So far all SETI searches have shown no evidence of other civilizations out there. If you have devoted your life to searching for intelligent life elsewhere in the universe, you are probably wasting your time.

The more I study about the formation of the earth, the more convinced I am that the earth is pretty much a freak occurrence whose conditions for life or intelligent life exits nowhere else. So what are the theological implications of this? I would be most interested in reading your input.


TOPICS: Theology
KEYWORDS: abiogenesis; earth; historicity; intelligentlife; scientism
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To: Crazieman
Gravity is not instantaneous. Its influence is exerted at light speed.

Careful. That isn't precisely true. Gravity waves, perhaps, propagate at lightspeed, but we haven't found any.

81 posted on 02/08/2013 10:42:12 AM PST by backwoods-engineer ("Remember: Evil exists because good men don't kill the gov officials committing it." -- K. Hoffmann)
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To: PJ-Comix

“So what are the theological implications of this?”

I think you answered your own rhetorical question. Theology. God.

BTW, don’t bother sending a space probe to Washington - there is no intelligence there.


82 posted on 02/08/2013 10:50:22 AM PST by TexasRepublic (Socialism is the gospel of envy and the religion of thieves)
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To: ZirconEncrustedTweezers
I haven’t given it much thought before, but I suppose the existence of life elsewhere in the universe with an intelligence comparable to that of humans would make the notion of humans as God’s special creation a lie.

Oh, I dunno. How does a formerly only child deal with a newborn brother or sister? He or she is no longer the center of the universe. Granted, some deal with it better than others, but I think most muddle by.

83 posted on 02/08/2013 10:51:18 AM PST by COBOL2Java (Fighting Obama without Boehner & McConnell is like going deer hunting without your accordion)
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To: PJ-Comix

It is not falsifiable to say life exists elsewhere in the universe, it is also not falsifiable to say it doesn’t exist anywhere else.

If you say it doesn’t, we can’t prove that proposition until every we’ve searched every place in the universe.

If you say it does, the same thing applies.

Our only chance to prove it would be if it exists close to us. If it exits on the other side of our own galaxy we’ll likely never know about it, much less other galaxies.

Even if we discover microbes on Mars, that still doesn’t prove that intelligent, sentient life exists elsewhere.

From a practical standpoint, there will never be any theological implications we’ll ever have to confront unless sentient life is found close to us.


84 posted on 02/08/2013 11:00:30 AM PST by Brett66 (Where government advances, and it advances relentlessly , freedom is imperiled -Janice Rogers Brown)
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To: PJ-Comix
Enrico Fermi, famously asked the question, "If there are extraterrestrials, where are they?", to his colleagues at Los Alamos, New Mexico. This Nobel Prize winner asked why it is essentially unknowable. They thought about it and finally Fermi postulated the following. There are about 30 trillion miles between stars as an average. If ETs exist they would have had to traverse a large distance. For instance if someone left here (Earth) traveling 17,500 miles per hour (speed of the shuttle) at the time of Christ, he would have traveled about 1% of a trillion miles. Given entropy, on biological systems, someone would have had to have food, water, sustanence for 200 thousand years to arrive at the NEAREST star.

Some postulate, what if they could travel at the speed of light. What we do know is that atoms behave very differently when approaching the speed of light, and the ability of a craft, or life form surviving such speeds is zero.

There is no evidence of biological life forms from other solar systems or galaxies.

85 posted on 02/08/2013 11:03:18 AM PST by Texas Songwriter (THA)
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To: discostu
so somewhere along the lines we’ll be able to navigate the solar system in weeks or days before we get any kind of warp drive

No "we" won't. You never took physics did you?

86 posted on 02/08/2013 11:06:38 AM PST by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: Springfield Reformer

Thank you for your refreshing comment.

The simple fact that is faux-analogized into obscurity is (if you’ll forgive the analogy) “life” is a “turtle on a fence post.”

We know more than enough about the nature of both fence posts and turtles to conclusively determine when we find a turtle resting on top of a fence post, another agency was required to put it there.

Theorizing an as-of-yet undiscovered naturalistic process to blindly accomplish the feat is just plain intellectual vanity.


87 posted on 02/08/2013 11:07:17 AM PST by papertyger
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To: cripplecreek
Technically we can achieve about 12% to 15% of light speed now

Not true except in science fiction. Just how do you think this is possible?

88 posted on 02/08/2013 11:17:33 AM PST by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: Brett66
From a practical standpoint, there will never be any theological implications we’ll ever have to confront unless sentient life is found close to us.

Not precisely true.

In the book of Romans, the Apostle Paul proposes the argument that by observing "that which is made," the extrapolation to a divine creator is so simple and obvious that all men at all times are accountable to that creator for not making it.

89 posted on 02/08/2013 11:19:27 AM PST by papertyger
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To: Cboldt
Even though the universe is immense, it's possible to estimate the number of atoms, starts, planets, etc. ... ends up being a big number, I think the number of atoms is estimated to be 10 to the 50th power or something like that. Then, do the probability of the chemistry of self-replicating (not intelligent, or even self-aware) thing. That's a very small number, but, in light of us being here, not zero.

You aren't even close. A quick Google search shows 10 to the 49th power as the approximate number of atoms that make up Earth. Just Earth. And current estimates have 100s of sextillions of stars. Assuming a 1:1 ratio for planets, that's quite a lot of chances to have some form of life.

But how can we 'discover' these other life forms? Or more likely, have them discover us? Considering the nearest star is just over 4 light-years away (which means it takes about 4 years for it's light to get here), and most stars are much farther away. So any EM connection would be from some life from long ago. Our signals to them would have the same delay. And unless you have a very tight transmission, the power of the signal degrades considerably at any distance, so most likely any signal would be lost in background noise. And physical contact would require thousands of years of travel, unless some kind of light-speed or greater than travel is/was developed. Like looking for a needle in a haystack the size of Jupiter. A tiny needle.

The only way I think we'll ever discover any kind of advanced life is years and years down the road, once we've started actually colonizing other planets and we'll eventually run into something else. But for now, our best bet is microorganisms on asteroids or Mars.
90 posted on 02/08/2013 11:19:52 AM PST by Svartalfiar
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To: KC_Lion
Yeah, if I had to take a guess, you've about got it right. Any civilization that's mastered interstellar travel, and innumerable other things, likely wouldn't have much to do with us.

For instance, you're aware of the ants in your driveway, but you don't sit down and try to talk with them.

91 posted on 02/08/2013 11:23:34 AM PST by wbill
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To: PJ-Comix
The more I study about the formation of the earth, the more convinced I am that the earth is pretty much a freak occurrence whose conditions for life or intelligent life exits nowhere else.

I wouldn't call it a freak occurrence. But all the known evidence points to intelligent life being rare. As far as theology goes, our rarity would make us special rather than freakish. The existence of anything, especially consciousness is astounding all by itself.

92 posted on 02/08/2013 11:25:55 AM PST by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: from occupied ga

VASIMIR engines could do it but they cost big bucks to make them large enough for effective manned deep space travel.

http://www.nasa.gov/vision/space/travelinginspace/future_propulsion.html


93 posted on 02/08/2013 11:35:34 AM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: from occupied ga

Yes we will. I did take physics, enough to know that Einstein said exactly how we could cheat the speed of light, and I pay enough attention to know that NASA has a theoretical model to make that work. It requires a little unobtanium but the physics is all there.


94 posted on 02/08/2013 11:41:55 AM PST by discostu (I recommend a fifth of Jack and a bottle of Prozac)
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To: Texas Songwriter
Some postulate, what if they could travel at the speed of light.

Just because you add Einstein, you don't get rid of Newton. The energy required to accelerate a mass M to a velocity V is 1/2 MV2. The total energy in matter is E = MC2. To accelerate a mass to close to the speed of light would require 100% efficient conversion of 1/2 of the mass of the object into some form of propulsion. Can't be done.

95 posted on 02/08/2013 11:44:01 AM PST by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: from occupied ga

I suspect Cripplecreek is referring to nuclear-pulse propulsion drives. Some of the more optimistic calculations seem to indicate a craft propelled by such an engine could make a noticeable percentage of the speed of light. And its one of the only proposed engines that is at least theoretically capable of being constructed with modern technology. Emphasis on “theoretically” - I think that a lot of the proposals for NPP spacecraft are extraordinarily optimistic.


96 posted on 02/08/2013 11:46:15 AM PST by JerseyanExile
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To: cripplecreek
VASIMIR

Not even close. See post #95 about energy requirements. I'll save you the math: it would take 0.5% of the objects total mass coverted with 100% efficiency into propulsive power to get to 10% of the speed of light

97 posted on 02/08/2013 11:50:23 AM PST by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: discostu
Einstein said exactly how we could cheat the speed of light

Actually he said you couldn't. He considered the speed of light the universal and ultimate speed limit. At relativistic speed we get into the concept of relativistic mass where γ m appears, where the gamma factor γ = (1–v2/c2)–1/2  What this boils down to is that any increase in propulsive energy doesn't increase speed but simply increases the realtivistic mass.

NASA has a theoretical model to make that work.

Not likely.

98 posted on 02/08/2013 12:02:44 PM PST by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: JerseyanExile
And its one of the only proposed engines that is at least theoretically capable of being constructed with modern technology. Emphasis on “theoretically

No matter what, the energy requirement set my newton don't go away See post #95 All of that is just science ficion. It boils down to "You can't get there from here."

99 posted on 02/08/2013 12:09:04 PM PST by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: from occupied ga

He said an object couldn’t break the speed of light. But he also said you could use gravity to condense the space the object is traveling through to create a functional travel speed higher than the speed of light without breaking it.

You can say not likely, but I’m going to believe Einstein and NASA.


100 posted on 02/08/2013 12:11:30 PM PST by discostu (I recommend a fifth of Jack and a bottle of Prozac)
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