Lutherans bristle at suggestion of joining Catholic Church

Reuters ^ | January 22, 2013 | om Heneghan

[Mr. Lucky]

On behalf of all fat, skinny black Lutherans, I can assure you that I am offended.

[Roos_Girl]

Fat, skinny, black and Lutheran is no way to go through life, son.

[Cronos]

Well, it is a trigger topic. it would be akin to saying your leadership is run by the anti-Christ, hence of course it needs to be carefully approached.

I don't know about the LCMS -- but as I said above, this is really for the European orthodox Lutherans who are smothered under the weight of liberals and have no LCMS or WELS to turn to.

About the LCMS, well, they do hold out the olive branch that they would revise their opinion based on certain conditions. It's not much, but it's nice

[Mr. Lucky]

The apparently irresolvable problem is how to leave a 16th Century dispute in the 16th Century. The Decet Romanum Pontificem declared that Lutherans forfeit their right to own property. Although this declaration has not been rescinded, the events giving rise to it have receded into the shroud of antiquity. Similarly, the Lutheran statements on the Papacy should be read in the context of the time when they were made.

[Cronos]

There is no easy way to handle historical disputes. What is ironic is when, let's take the case of the 30-year wars. Many of the freepers who argue on side A or side B may have forgotten that their ancestors may have been on the other side, or indeed in the intermingling, perhaps they had ancestors on BOTH sides

And of course, we forget sides c, d, e :)

With regards to the Decet itself, the first minor, very minor, step we Catholics have made is saying the Church will reconsider. The second, big step that we must make is rescinding the added piece of "those who follow him" -- it's too ambiguous and unlike that against a specific individual is not time-constrained.

The third step will require a lot more prayer and effort on both sides and we should not focus on this right now so much as the above two

[Roos_Girl]

So, in the scheme of things, why do you think it’s important that Lutherans come back to the Catholic church?

[Cronos]

I think it is important for Christians to be united, and more so for Christians who are in orthodoxy to be united. What that unity means, can take time and vary over time.

Catholics, Orthodox, Orientals, Assyrians, traditional conservative Lutherans and Anglicans should work together to fight the common enemies of Islam and secularism

Giving an example -- the fall of the ECUSA to the gay-mafia is a blow to all of Christendom. Why? because then the leftists turned to each new denomination and said "so, the ECUSA does this, why don't you?" -- we cannot wrap ourselves in isolation to these activities

The ECUSA can't be saved, hence the Anglican Ordinariate makes sense

[Mr. Lucky]

I have to tell both of you (as well as most others on this thread) how much I have personally benefited from reading (and then thinking about) your well thought out and mutually respectful posts on this thread.

[Roos_Girl]

It would be nice to have a united Christian front. I’m not sure how possible that will be given that even within each denomination there are disagreements on major issues. And there are some deal killers for me personally within the Catholic church that would prevent me from joining.

That said, we’ve yet to find an LCMS church within reasonable driving distance after moving away from our “home” LCMS church almost 4 years ago. It seems they’ve all gone to a contemporary type service that we can’t stand. It has absolutely nothing to do with being Lutheran, could be substituted into any non-denominational church and no one know the difference. No confession of sins (which even in the LCMS traditional service I changed from being “we” to “I”, as in *I* confess that *I* am by nature sinful and unclean instead of *We* confess.... when it is recited), no Nicene Creed, etc. Not meaning to change the subject, just a bit of confession/observation. But, we have an almost 1 year old now and really would love to find a new home church for all of us.

[Cronos]

I’m not sure how possible that will be given that even within each denomination there are disagreements on major issues.

There will be disagreements yes, but lets see who is our major foe -- and it's not islam but rampant militant secularism

I'm in favor of real secularism where the government respects all religion and favors none, but that doesn't mean that the government is Areligious or anti-religious (as in France or now Obama -- instead compare to India's secularism)

Folks are surprised that a Masters in Engg can be religious, but to me it makes sense -- humanity needs religion, a belief in something higher than themselves. If we don't have it or find it in God, we replace it with something else -- even Epicureans replace it with hedonism or a belief in the state or even in "shoppingu!"

People with no sense of a higher purpose can degenerate into animals (NOTE: many atheists believe in a higher purpose for humanity, they don't fall into this "animals" category, rather I reserve it for, how can I put it, the dumb atheists, who have no belief in god or anything and with no moral code, there is no reason not to grab what you want)

I understand what you say about the "home church" -- when I moved to Poland 2.5 years ago, I went for Polish masses (as they were closer to home) and I didn't understand much (or anything) of the sermon, but the prayers and the presence of the Eucharist was common.

Slowly, now I understand more

I went a few times for an English mass (mostly expats, mostly fellow Americans) and I didn't like it -- I mean, too much softie-softie. The Polish masses are like a strict high mass (of course, even the English masses have the I confess and the "moja wina") -- so I wonder if this is a primary fault of the English services..

[Cronos]

I think we can disagree without muck-racking. It's hard for some like me, but not impossible. And, it makes for a real Christian dialogue.

I'm not saying there aren't going to be fights, but a fight on cyberspace has limitations even in the ability to convince the other.

[Roos_Girl]

I’m an engineer too, as is my husband, well now I’m a stay at home mom, but I still have my license. Been a pleasure discussing all this with you.