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To: vladimir998
"The episcopate is a office. If he obtained it rather than founded it, then it already existed."

No it didn't. George Washington was the first person to obtain the office of US President. That doesn't mean someone held it before him. Your statement makes no sense at all. The first person to hold any office, "obtained" it. The office has to be established before the first person holding it can obtain it. The text specifically says Linus was the first not Peter. The text never says Peter ever held it which it would if he had. End of Story.

109 posted on 01/24/2013 8:41:20 AM PST by circlecity
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To: circlecity

You wrote:

“No it didn’t. George Washington was the first person to obtain the office of US President. That doesn’t mean someone held it before him.”

Your analogy simply doesn’t work:
1) Scripture already tells us Peter was in Rome.
2) Tradition already tells us Peter was in Rome.
3) Early Church Fathers tell us Peter was in Rome.
4) The lists passed down through history show that the episcopate was an active office BEFORE Linus - held by, opened by, Peter.
5) Linus didn’t establish the office and no one claims he did. He obtained it ONLY AFTER PETER’S MARTYRDOM and the mentioning of that fact shows the office’s open state was completely dependent upon Peter’s death. If he had not died, the office would not have been open for Linus.

“Your statement makes no sense at all.”

Actually, it does. And remember, as I believe now, so did the Church in the early centuries.

“The first person to hold any office, “obtained” it.”

Peter held it first.

“The office has to be established before the first person holding it can obtain it. The text specifically says Linus was the first not Peter. The text never says Peter ever held it which it would if he had. End of Story.”

No, actually the text makes it plain Peter had what Linus got once Peter was dead. Hence, Linus couldn’t have it until Peter’s death - which is what the text tells us by the order of comments and their actual import.


111 posted on 01/24/2013 2:57:46 PM PST by vladimir998
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