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To: xzins; P-Marlowe
For what it’s worth, PM, Arminius NEVER left Calvinism.

FWIW-My views on Arminius has soften over the years. I'm not quite sure if he understood the error that he was portraying - the results of what you're seeing with the "I have decided..." It is extremely subtle. Even Augustine taught this until he was confronted by the Reformed Cyprian with the question, "What do you have that you have not been given?" It was this question that made Augustine burn his writings (not a small feat in those days) and linked "free will" with Pelagius. I personally believe that Arminius was dupe by the counter-Protestant fraction of the time, but there is no proof of this except that he never left Calvinism.

It’s hard to see how someone is morally responsible for preprogrammed behavior.

Yes, I agree. But Adam would never know what love truly is while he was in the garden where he was surround by love. It was only when it was no more that he knew what he'd lost. And we know this grieved the Father to have to show Adam this for He tells us that it "grieved Him that He made man" in Gen 6. Not that God was sorry about His creation but the road to Calvery was just as hard on God as it was on us as difficult as that is to understand.

We are God's children and He is our Father in a very real sense of the term.

685 posted on 02/02/2013 3:14:34 AM PST by HarleyD
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To: HarleyD; P-Marlowe
Not that God was sorry about His creation but the road to Calvery was just as hard on God as it was on us as difficult as that is to understand.

I agree that the road to Calvary was painful for God. I believe His grief is real where He says He grieved.

That does not change the difficulty in both the foreknowledge and the foreordination perspectives. One is difficult because of works and the other is difficult because of sin.

Most people today prefer to quibble over a bare touch of works righteousness than over God being the author of sin. Personally, I do not yet see a biblical explanation that eases the difficulties inherent in either view. That's one thing that makes me think we might be missing something.

687 posted on 02/02/2013 6:32:07 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! True supporters of our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: HarleyD; xzins
What do you have that you have not been given?"

A bad attitude.

691 posted on 02/02/2013 7:35:13 AM PST by P-Marlowe (There can be no Victory without a fight and no battle without wounds.)
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