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To: HarleyD
>>Now you never answered my question. Do men purposely choose to go to hell?<<

How could they? Calvinists say man is predestined. God predestined Adam from which all men inherited a sin nature then God predestined only those He chooses to save. So by inference God predestined all to whatever outcome they are destined for. As was posted earlier on this thread. Calvinists believe “we are just along for the ride”. Not much sense in any more discussion on the matter.

650 posted on 02/01/2013 10:19:02 AM PST by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear; HarleyD; betty boop; metmom; Alamo-Girl; marron; stfassisi; xzins

FWIW your understanding of Calvinism appears to be at best superficial and at worst an example of kicking against the pricks.

I have used every one of the arguments that you have used on this thread to defend my firm belief in what is called Arminianism and my firm belief that somehow the Calvinist positions regarding unconditional grace were somehow “unfair” or “unjust” and that somehow it was the duty of God to treat all his creatures equally and fairly and that any decision of God that did not include a free will decision of men must on its face be evil or worse.

I had a slow change of heart and now I find myself much closer to the Calvinist theology than the Arminian construct. I have come to the realization that the Calvinist position is much more consistent with the entire bible and with all individual scriptures than the Arminian construct. When you study the entire bible with an eye towards what God has done with his creation you pretty much have to conclude that God has done with his creation pretty much everything he intended to do. Not even pretty much. God has done ALL that he intended.

I had my change of position when I decided to go on the Catholic threads and get into discussions of theology. I developed a clearer sense of my position when I argued with Catholics. Eventually I found myself taking the positions of the Calvinists which I had spent nearly a decade trying desperately to dispute.

I have read and studied numerous anti-Calvinist books by guys like Dave Hunt and others. I know every single argument against Calvinism and then some. But I tended to avoid positive works about Calvinism like Spurgeon’s Sermons on Calvinism, and Calvin’s own Institutes of Religion and his commentaries.

At some point I began reading Calvin’s works and listening to Sermons by Spurgeon and John MacArthur and Lorraine Boettner. The more I studied these men’s work the more I began to understand the doctrine which they were preaching. As I began to understand it more, my repulsion at the doctrine as I misunderstood it became softened and eventually I found that I was actually embracing many of the teachings of Calvin and Spurgeon and others.

Why don’t you try this experiment. Argue with an Arminian. Challenge an Arminian. Try learning enough about both sides that you are capable of debating both Calvinists and Arminians. Once you get to that point, I believe you will have a clearer understanding of both positions and your hatred of the idea of Calvinism will soften.


655 posted on 02/01/2013 11:08:41 AM PST by P-Marlowe (There can be no Victory without a fight and no battle without wounds.)
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