Pope: Everyone, Even Atheists, Want to See the Face of God

Asia News ^ | 1/16/13

[marshmallow]

General audience, Benedict XVI defines the Incarnation as "something unimaginable, the face of God can be seen, the process that began with Abraham is fulfilled." The Week of Prayer for Christian Unity, he asks "for the great gift" to "proclaim together that Jesus is the Savior of the world."

Vatican City (AsiaNews) - "The desire to know the face of God is in every man, even the atheists," but this desire is only realized by following Christ, in whom, in the Incarnation, "something unimaginable took place, the journey that began with Abraham is fulfilled. He is the Son, the fullness of all Revelation; the mediator who shows us the face of God. "

And "to proclaim together that Jesus is the Saviour of the world" Benedict XVI asked for incessant prayers for "the great gift" of Christian unity in the forthcoming week, which begins on the 18th of this month.

Previously, in his catechesis, he again reflected on the meaning of Christmas, in a commentary on John's Gospel in which the apostle Philip asks Jesus to show them the Father. The answer of Jesus, "introduces us to the heart of the Church's Christological faith; For the Lord says: "Whoever has seen me has seen the Father" (Jn 14:9).This expression summarizes the novelty of the New Testament, the novelty that appeared in the cave of Bethlehem: God can be seen, he showed his face is visible in Jesus Christ".

The theme of "seeking the face of God" is present throughout the Old Testament, so much so that the Hebrew term "face", occurs no less than 400 times, 100 of which refer to God." The of Jewish religion which the religion forbids all images, "for God can not be depicted," and "can not be reduced to an object," tells us that "God...

[presently no screen name]

It’s God’s word. Think about that. The Holy Spirit put the words on those pages as if He wrote them Himself.

AMEN!! That's why IT is so powerful. "For the Word of God is LIVING and ACTIVE. Sharper than any double-edged sword, IT penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; IT judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart."

How prideful of man to add their man made doctrine as if it means anything.

A quick story.. Last week while there was confusion at the cashier. One guy ahead of me was thoroughly disgusted by it all - it appeared he was having a bad day/month/year - because his response to this minor inconvenience was over the top. I happened to say a Scripture and he looked at me and I literally saw peace come to his face, his demeanor changed as he took a big sigh. He said thanks, I'll have to remember that as he repeated it. I realized he might think they are my words. Just to be sure - I said there is alot more where that came from. While he had that questioning look - I said 'in God's Word - those are the words of Jesus'. He did confirm there was much wrong going on against him and that's the reason for his actions/words.

And that is what 'church' is about. At times, it may only be speaking one Scripture to a stranger for one minute. We never stop being The Church.

Lest anyone have a meltdown due to the absence of a denomination - at that time, the denomination was 'supermarket' or 'check out line' - those who value denominations can choose. I have no idea where the guy stood spiritually nor he, me - although, at first he didn't know it was The Word, he left knowing It was and It is powerful.

So anyone who isn't peaceful they don't have The Word and if anyone is looking for peace, we love them enough to give them The Word.

A denomination and man made teachings/doctrine falls flat next to that. Now 'who' created useless denominations and man teachings/doctrine that has no power and why? Anyone who knows The Word, knows the who and why.

It's All about Jesus The Word.

[presently no screen name]

People will automatically consider that you have nothing to say if they don't like your denomination.

Evil has no bounds, it will use man to create anything to stop The Word - it started in Gen and continues.

[presently no screen name]

But once you start going down the road of denominations, it fosters an *us vs them* mentality, which should not exist within the body of Christ.

And it won't exist when God separates the wheat from the chaff.

"His winnowing fork is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clear His threshing floor; and He will gather His wheat into the barn, but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire." Matt 3:12

[presently no screen name]

If you are not willing to put your doctrines to the test, then you have no business (NO BUSINESS) criticizing the doctrinal beliefs of others.

Man made teachings/doctrine are opinions of man.

Warning: Exalting opinions above that of the Lord is pride.

Pride is from the pit and we don't serve that master. We serve The Almighty God.

[xzins]

1 Timothy 1: 12 I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has given me strength, that he considered me faithful, appointing me to his service. 13 Even though I was once a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent man, I was shown mercy because I acted in ignorance and unbelief.

14 The grace of our Lord was poured out on me abundantly, along with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus. 15 Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst.

16 But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his unlimited patience as an example for those who would believe on him and receive eternal life. 17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

18 Timothy, my son, I give you this instruction in keeping with the prophecies once made about you, so that by following them you may fight the good fight, 19 holding on to faith and a good conscience. Some have rejected these and so have shipwrecked their faith. 20 Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme.

[Cronos]

ping for future - >>Just how did Satan get into the garden. By taxi?<<

Don’t suppose I rightly know and didn’t think it important but given he spends his time going to and fro he may have caught wind of God’s new creation and thought he’d see if they could be convinced to come over to his side?

[xzins]

Romans 16: 17 I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.

18 For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people.

19 Everyone has heard about your obedience, so I am full of joy over you; but I want you to be wise about what is good, and innocent about what is evil.

20 The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you.

[metmom]

Hey! CB. Over here. cronos is quoting you without pinging you.

[CynicalBear]

LOL It’s always the ones that cry teacher! Teacher! Johnny did a naughty.

[metmom]

Some people take life too seriously.

You say something tongue in cheek and suddenly someone all over you like white on rice.

[HarleyD]

"Free will" WAS the term used by some of the Bible versions for the two different Greek words. I don't see the point of arguing over it nor the need to quibble about whether or not the verses were "poor examples". My point is simply that the term IS used in Scripture. If people can give voluntarily, if they can come and go of their own volition,

No, I don't know of any (legitimate) Bible versions that uses "free will". Just to make certain I checked. The reason I'm "quibbling" over this is simply because the term "free will" is directly linked to the Pelagius heresy by Augustine. Please note what he writes:

"Therefore," says the Pelagian, "He foreknew who would be holy and immaculate by the choice of free will, and on that account elected them before the foundation of the world

WHAT IS THE VIEW OF THE PELAGIANS, AND WHAT OF THE SEMI-PELAGIANS, CONCERNING PREDESTINATION. But these brethren of ours, about whom and on whose behalf we are now discoursing, say, perhaps, that the Pelagians are refuted by this apostolical testimony in which it is said that we are chosen in Christ and predestinated before the foundation of the world, in order that we should be holy and immaculate in His sight in love. For they think that "having received God's commands we are of ourselves by the choice of our free will made holy and immaculate in His sight in love

A Treatise on the Predestination of the Saints

Now I simply don't know what else to say. Augustine states that Pelagius and Semi-Pelagius believe in "free will". This view was CONDEMNED as heresy by the church not only in Augustine's work, but by the Council of Orange. Yet 1000 years later the Catholics accepted it and 200 years after that Protestants accepted the heresy. And now I'm being told I'm crazy for not believing in heresy.

HD-Don't blame me if you don't like being a Protestant. I'll stick with the confessions.

BoatB-Why would I blame you for what I believe?

Well, you got me on that. What a silly statement for me to make. I guess I was wrapped up in some Calvinist fervor or something. :O)

Over a doctrine that NO BODY can come down definitively on one side of or another,

I don't know why people keep repeating this. The proof that this doctrine is wrong is in Augustine's writings. Couple that with no one wants to give a definition or admit they come to Christ on their own volition should give one pause to why people keep insisting on free will as a legitimate alternative.

Look closely at your confession of faith. It is just like every confession of faith of a true believer. Please examine it:

1) There was within my heart a stirring that convinced me there was something more, something I wasn't being told about, something I was missing.

2) That stirring, of course, was the Holy Spirit and,

3) at sixteen years old, I understood the gospel from reading John 10:27-30.

4) I received Jesus Christ as my savior

5) and I was baptized into a Southern Baptist Church.

This is the EXACTLY the way God saves all of us. Study what happened very closely. There was a stirring in your heart (God coming to you). Something was missing (God opening your eyes to the truth). You understood the gospel (You heard the truth, you understood the reality). You received our Lord as your Savior (WOULD YOU HAVE TURNED HIM AWAY NOW???). And then you were baptized into the Southern Baptist Church.

Your salvation story is exactly the same as everyone. And note the order. After you had this longing that something was missing and you understood the gospel, do you real think you would turn God away?

Might I suggest you read through the London Baptist Confession of Faith. Might I also suggest reading The Great Change—Conversion by Charles Spurgeon, that great Southern Baptist preacher. It is the story of his conversion. As I'm fond of saying, there is not one Christian that believe God didn't save them.

[HarleyD]

That's what I'm having a hard time with HD.I've read the postings of these guys for years.Years.So I haven't come to my opinion of them reading one or two contentious threads,especially in an area of doctrine that has been thrashed for centuries and yet there still is divide over it.

I think it's important to keep this in perspective Mitch. I believe "free will" is the sin of Adam. I believe the whole concept goes back to Adam's desire to be independent of God. It is Adam saying to God, "I will take the fruit." And what you have seen on this thread is this rebellion rearing it's ugly head. It is a nasty attitude that lurks in all of us. "I" will make the choice. "I" am free to do what I want. Some of us just like to defend it or justify it more than others. I simply don't believe people understand what they are saying. They are blinded. And, yes, these are very fine Christians. You only have to look back at many of the posts to see that this is so.

Where this sin leads is to more heresy and corruption. Catholics abandoned Augustine's warnings on this over 1500 years ago and look where they are today. Protestants are on the same road.

I think it's very important to get people to understand this heresy. It is a subtle cancerous error than entwines itself around the spinal core of just about every doctrine of faith. It has been my experience that the less people embrace the "I choose", the closer they understand about "God choose". It's all about God's sovereign and loving control over their lives. I saw this to be true in my life. That is why I bring it up. May God grant us His mercy to understand His grace. What do we have that we have not received from God?

[mitch5501]

Oh good grief HD now I can't find a single thing to disagree with you on in your last coupla posts! I hope I don't have to go back and reread the entire thread!Now I find myself wincing as I ask this...Has anyone here not given God all the glory for their salvation?

For myself the thought that "I" did anything worthwhile in regards coming to God is laughable (amongst many other more sobering things!)It is indeed all 'Him' (with whom we have to do)that has done and is doing it all.When I do whatever I want it is not in His direction.However I believe He is changing the things I want.I find myself wanting different things now.Coveting different things,finding different things beautifull,finding different things desirable.

Those things God shows me makes the 'choice' between Him and not Him practically moot.I suppose I could turn my head and go another way and I find within myself a very strong urge to do just that.The beauty,the truth,the reality,the overpowering goodness of God towards me always lets me see and feel the chain that binds me to that anchor.I'm so thankfull for that as I have and do sorely test the strength of that chain all too often.

Please excuse my rambling.I'm simply trying to be candid and do not care wether I might say something wrong and fall into a gotcha! Not that I think you are like that at all HD.I think I need to go head butt a brick wall now.To either clear my head or knock some sense into it!

God bless

[presently no screen name]

I told you, free will can be used for good or bad. Adam used his free will to disobey God which led to deception. He could have used his free will to ignore ‘the snake’ . The snake being there didn’t cause him to disobey, it was his disobedience that opened the door to being deceive. And that is when Adam bowed to sin/evil, and the dominion over all things that Adam was given, was now in the hands of evil.

Disobedience has consequences and you never know how far off the track it will led you.

Gods Word states to ‘hear and obey’ because HE knows if we don’t obey Him you can be deceived. And you have to hear first to know what to obey. God is a GOOD Father.

Perhaps anyone with not a good earthly father - cannot understand that. Most families have the same rule - listen to me and obey me when I talk. Is it for the parents sake or for the sake of the child? The parents have foreknowledge of pitfalls that they don’t want for their children, who they love, to experience. I’m sure there are some parents who say ‘that’s life, suck it up’. Not much love there.

Just like baby Christians they may hear that and then they never grew in the love The Almighty God has for them as they are stuck in that belief. We will expire before we ever get to the depths, height, width of HIS LOVE. HE holds the universe in His Hand and He is all love – now try to measure that.

All that and yet, HIS WORD ALONE is not enough for them - they turn to man’s teachings as they believe they are missing something - the same lie that Adam was deceived it believing. His free will allowed to him to obey or disobey - because we know He did hear The Word. So posting, hearing or reading the Word is only one part - it is the OBEDIENCE that counts.

There is God’s perfect will/His Word and our free will. When our free will aligns itself with His perfect will, we used our will wisely. If not, learn from Adam.

We all start out the same – He died for All and gave His Word to All. Yet we will not all end up in the same place. Yet He wants ALL to be saved. What happened? It is man’s obedience or disobedience that is in play. Same like parents, most do all they are capable of and then some even more than that – and some of their children obeyed and some didn’t. Who are the ones who expressed a desire to make the end good for themselves?

[presently no screen name]

I don't know of any (legitimate) Bible versions that uses "free will". Just to make certain I checked. The reason I'm "quibbling" over this is simply because the term "free will" is directly linked to the Pelagius heresy by Augustine. ....And now I'm being told I'm crazy for not believing in heresy.

The fact you imply some versions are not legitimate and you turn to man for truth. Yeah, I would say there is a bit of craziness there but where is the heresy?

Now what verses are not legitimate to you to suite your belief?

And how does your theology address The Cross and satan/evil?

[presently no screen name]

Has anyone here not given God all the glory for their salvation?

Perhaps, anyone who didn't receive The Gift He gave us.

However I believe He is changing the things I want.I find myself wanting different things now.Coveting different things,finding different things beautifull,finding different things desirable.

That is what His Word does. It's powerful! We renew our mind with His Word and the old teachings, old desires fade away as they replaced with His Truth/Ways. It's the only way we can begin to be like Jesus. Like John The Baptist, more of Him, less of me.

Now if John says that and his whole life was devoted to God and he says that in his 30's - it's a process that grows and grows and doesn't just happen the day we receive the GIFT of salvation. If we are born again, we have His Spirit in us. Now our mind through God's Word is coming into alignment with our spirit which lives forever.

I love reading the power of The Word. It's next only to experiencing it.

"For the word of God is ALIVE and ACTIVE and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Heb 4:12

"Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—His good, pleasing and perfect will". Romans 12:2

[Religion Moderator]

Stop making this thread "about" individual Freepers. That is a form of "making it personal."

Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you for sharing your insights, dear brother in Christ!

As for me:

Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish [ought] from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you. - Deut 4:2

And:

But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. - 2 Cor 11:3

The law and the prophets are summed up in two commandments, the first of which is the One and only Great Commandment:

Then one of them, [which was] a lawyer, asked [him a question], tempting him, and saying, Master, which [is] the great commandment in the law?

Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

This is the first and great commandment.

And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. – Matthew 22:35-40

I don't "sweat the details":

For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. – Romans 8:38-39

To God be the glory, not man, never man.