A Catholic Response to Sola Fide: Saved by Faith Alone (Ecumenical)

Children of God For Life ^ | 4/26/2012 | Debi Vinnedge

[1010RD]

OK.

[Tenega]

Actually, we Christians are “a nation of priests” (I Peter 2:9), fulfilling a role that had been slated for the Israelites (Exodus 19), with one high priest: Jesus. Which means we ought to be intercessors and ambassadors to the whole world, praying ‘til our knees are calloused and living like, well, Saints.

[Cronos]

Actually Christianity which we Catholics, Orthodox etc. follow is not a works-based religion, we follow Jesus Christ (Yeshua's) way

Whatever you may believe in is your choice, but I prefer to follow Jesus Christ's words Matt 25:31-46 34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

Note that

1. He who believes and is baptized will be saved. (Mk 16:16)
2. [U]nless you repent you will all likewise perish. (Lk 13:3)<,li> [H]e who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. (Jn 6:54)

So, those who kid themselves that just by faith ALONE, they can call out "Lord, Lord", they will be saved, well.... they're going to have a shock...

[Cronos]

editor: just don’t try to call it The Way of Yeshua.

Jesus 34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

No quotes out of context -- I prefer to follow Jesus Christ's teachings rather than yours, sorry.

[1010RD]

On what authority should we believe Peter?

[Cronos]

Editor "There has been no priesthood since the veil was torn in the temple" -- err... do read the Bible, 1 Peter 2 you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house[a] to be a holy priesthood,

[Cronos]

Jesus never dissolved the ministerial priesthood. As a continuation of the Old Covenant in which all of Israel is a priestly nation yet has ministerial priests, in the same way we are all a royal priesthood people with ministerial priests

you see this continuation in 1 Peter 2 which references Exodus 19:6 Although the whole earth is mine, 6 you[a] will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’

The universal priesthood still had the ministerial priesthood

[editor-surveyor]

The word is pastors, not priests.

We are all priests, in that we deal directly with the Lord, not with an intercessionist. This is exactly what Christ denounced WRT “nicolaitans.” The Pharisees were the model for the nicolaitans, with their false oral traditions which the nicolaitans have carried foreward to this day.

If it is oral, it is of Satan.

[editor-surveyor]

>> “On what authority should we believe Peter?” <<

On the authority of Yeshua, who praised his understanding, and said that it came from the father.

The problem is that you don’t necessarily know that what you’re hearing came from Peter if it isn’t in the word.

[editor-surveyor]

Nothing in that quote you posted has any agreement with your positions, so to follow his teachings, you would have change direction.

[Tenega]

Of course this priesthood thing is a perpetual bone of contention between Catholics and protestants. I myself am firmly in the camp of the “priesthood of all believers.” Any Christian has direct access through prayer, even silent prayer, to God and Jesus, our living high priest, through the Holy Spirit within us. There is no need for an earthly, human intercessor, let alone anyone to continue making offerings to God. The one, true sacrifice was made by Christ himself.

I think the prevailing view is that the Israelites abdicated their role as a “nation of priests” with their little foray into gold-calf making. It was after that, in his anger and disappointment, that God ordained the Aaronic priesthood, which continued until the destruction of the last temple in 70 AD and the end of ritual sacrifice. Nowhere does Jesus or any of the apostles talk of an intercessory priesthood for Christians after his death. Teachers, preachers, evangelists, yes, but not priests making sacrifices or standing in between God and his saints, absolving sin or prescribing penance.

To be a bit more cynical about it, I’m highly suspicious and generally disdainful of the Religious Professionals (RPs, I call them) who make a comfortable living feeding off the Lord’s flock. Ezekiel 34 ought to give pause to any self-anointed shepherds who go into the ministry (Catholic or Protestant) to enjoy a cushy lifestyle with no heavy lifting. The way the whole sacramental thing has evolved strikes me as something akin to trade unionism, designed to ensure full employment for the RP class. Fortunately, according to the Anglican 39 Articles, the moral corruption of clergy does not invalidate the administration of sacraments.

[editor-surveyor]

>> “ the moral corruption of clergy does not invalidate the administration of sacraments.” <<

.
When you break the bread, and drink the wine/juice, you’re having a symbolic meal with Yeshua, in remembrance of his broken body that heals yours, and his shed blood that paid for your sins.

It has nothing to do with any clergy, you can buy or bake the bread yourself, and do it at home, or in a motel room, and it remains the same. I would hesitate to partake of any bread offered by one who believes that he has conjured up the body of Yeshua therein. That is no better than eating the meat offered to idols.

[Tenega]

Agreed. I was thinking mainly of baptism.

[Cronos]

Yup and the word used in Latin and Greek IS presbyteroi

Don't stick to just English with its limitations...

[Cronos]

The Nicolaitians show the errors that people (note e-s for you), follow when they do not hold to Apostolic Teachings.

As you said " The Pharisees were the model for the nicolaitans, with their false oral traditions which the nicolaitans have carried foreward to this day." and note that "The common statement is that the Nicolaitans held the antinomian heresy of Corinth." and antinomianism and the doctrine of sola fide (justification through faith alone) are historically related,

[Cronos]

Do read the Bible editor-surveyor and realise that just saying "Lord, Lord" doesn't save you. Christ Himself said For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. -- it is Christ who saves us by grace alone, not by your or my faith alone

[Cronos]

Any Christian has direct access through prayer, even silent prayer, to God and Jesus, our living high priest, through the Holy Spirit within us. There is no need for an earthly, human intercessor, let alone anyone to continue making offerings to God. The one, true sacrifice was made by Christ himself.

and that is orthodox teaching. The Church holds that, just as with the ancient Israelites, we are all a "nation of priests" and just as the ancient Israelites had ministerial priests set aside (Levites), so too do we have in the Church

The same structure -- with the difference that the High Priest is eternal Jesus Christ who is present at each Eucharist, each Mass

the Israelites abdicated their role as a “nation of priests” with their little foray into gold-calf making. -- sorry, that doesn't hold as we read in Exodus 16 how Aaron and Moses preach to the Israelites

Even in Exodus 19 with the pronouncement of you[a] will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ -- these come from God through Moses and in Exodus 19:22 you read And let the priests also, which come near to the Lord, sanctify themselves, lest the Lord break forth upon them.

This was before Moses went up into Mt. Sinai

[Cronos]

And, as the Church holds, we all of course pray to Christ directly and at the Highest prayer, during the Eucharist, Christ IS present as the High Priest

Christ is the High Priest and we are all His priestly nation -- whether lay priests or ministerial priests

The High Priest, Jesus Christ is the High Priest and the one-time Sacrifice -- note, this is a participation in the One-Time sacrifice famously captured by Van Eyck in the 14th century painting

We are participating in Christ's one-time sacrifice which as seen in the words of the Apocalypse of St. John of Patmos, as seen in Heaven is the Lamb standing proudly with the blood of Christ in the Eucharist

NOTE: the English term "priest" is simply a contraction of the Greek word presbuteros (presbyster/elder) -- these have the responsibility of teaching, governing, and providing the sacraments in a given congregation (1 Tim. 5:17; Jas. 5:14–15).

[Cronos]

Ezekiel 34 ought to give pause to any self-anointed shepherds who go into the ministry (Catholic or Protestant) to enjoy a cushy lifestyle with no heavy lifting. -- agreed.

[Cronos]

the moral corruption of clergy does not invalidate the administration of sacraments

correct. That is because these are in the end just the ministers performing their duty, while the real grace comes from the High Priest