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To: Tax-chick
I think the idea here, Tax-Chick, is that breakage, tearing, bleeding and pain were not intended "from the beginning" to be part of the procreation of our kind, just as death and rotting in the grave were not intended "in the beginning" to be our denouement.

In "Eden 1.0," before sin, true human nature flourished according to God's unimpeded postive intent: Adam and Eve were humans as humans were intended to be. This is called Original Justice: in harmony with God, with Nature, between each other, and within themselves, with no injury, whether physical, emotional, or spiritual, and no strife.

It is only after sin, and the heritable consequences of sin, that painful bloody strife came to be part of the sexual and generative mix. Think ho often in the history of womankind, childbearing has been a Monomachy between life and death. Check out the curses in Genesis 3:14-20.

It follows, as fitting, that if Jesus Christ is the New Adam, and our Lady Mary the New Eve, who, through His grace and power, helps set upright what Mother Eve had put upside down, Mary would not be subject to all the physical signs and natural consequences of sin: the things which fit together in the category of "corruption," in the sense of "tendency to dissolution, deterioration, decomposition."

So it is not that Mary is super-human. It is that she is Human; she is the Standard Model; she is of an equal nature with Original Eve. It is we who are sub-human; or if that sounds too harsh, let's say we are substandard, damaged goods. We're dingy, dinged. She's in mint condition. <> The significance of "Beata Maria Semper Virgine" (written on the catacomb walls) means that we were not meant to be broken into, or broken out of. The procreation of children was meant, in the zip code of Eden (the word means "Delight"), to be pure unblemished unadulterated joy.

38 posted on 12/24/2012 3:13:59 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o (May the Lord bless you, may the Lord keep you, May He turn to you His countenance and give you peace)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
Yes, I see the point. However, if Jesus were born by some process that involved His body's being, at some point, incorporeal; or Mary's body being, at some point, incorporeal; then that is, it seems to me, in contradiction with her being solely human and His being fully human.

If human beings, from creation, were to reproduce their kind, then was "birth by teleportation" to be the default arrangement? What about all the other mammals who give birth (now) by the same general means as humans? Were all their young to emerge via a process of molecular disintegration and reassembly?

Dear old Kolokotronis would doubtless be calling me rude names in Greek at this point, and mumbling about simplistic black-and-white Calvinism.

39 posted on 12/24/2012 5:33:01 PM PST by Tax-chick (If I had two dead rats, I'd give you one.)
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