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To: Mrs. Don-o
Yes, I see the point. However, if Jesus were born by some process that involved His body's being, at some point, incorporeal; or Mary's body being, at some point, incorporeal; then that is, it seems to me, in contradiction with her being solely human and His being fully human.

If human beings, from creation, were to reproduce their kind, then was "birth by teleportation" to be the default arrangement? What about all the other mammals who give birth (now) by the same general means as humans? Were all their young to emerge via a process of molecular disintegration and reassembly?

Dear old Kolokotronis would doubtless be calling me rude names in Greek at this point, and mumbling about simplistic black-and-white Calvinism.

39 posted on 12/24/2012 5:33:01 PM PST by Tax-chick (If I had two dead rats, I'd give you one.)
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To: Tax-chick
I don't know about the "incorporeal" or "teleportation" process. The "how" of it is just speculation, as I understand it, not dogma.

There are fellow mammals who give birth with a lot more ease--- aren't there? Maybe the full term baby was originally designed to be smaller and, at the same time, sturdier. Like calves, who get up and totter about within hours of birth (and our babies can't walk until about a YEAR later. My Ben was 13 1/2 months before he walked!) Maybe the maternal pelvis : baby cranium ratio was supposed to be larger, the anatomical structures stretchier, and the placenta supposed to come out neat, like one of those modules in the Mars explorer.

Preternatural phenomena, by definition, perfect nature but do not carry it into the "supernatural," beyond the limits of created nature. They include three great privileges --infused knowledge, freedom from concupiscence, and bodily immortality and invulnerability --- which Adam and Eve possessed before the Fall. Like I said, I don't think "incorporeality" is dogma: but I'd LOVE to get a heapin' helpin' of those preternatural gifts.

Merry Christmas to you, dear Tax-Chick; and to Sir Rooster and all the chickadees.

40 posted on 12/24/2012 6:10:48 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o (May the Lord bless you, may the Lord keep you, May He turn to you His countenance and give you peace)
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To: Tax-chick
I don't think the phrase "as sunlight through glass" means that the baby Jesus was incorporeal. His mother wasn't glass either (glass being transparent and breakable and all that).

It's just a poetic turn of phrase meaning that Jesus' birth did his mother no harm, without getting into the nitty-gritty details of labor and delivery.

Since I have known plenty of moms who gave birth with no anesthesia and very little pain (my own mom and my self among them, mom being one of the first generation of American followers of Grantley Dick-Read M.D.), I would expect that the Blessed Mother's 'childbirth experience' would be at least that good, and better.

41 posted on 12/25/2012 8:56:41 AM PST by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGS Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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