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To: RobbyS
>> it is there that we believe we encounter the divine.<<

My sincerest sympathies go out to you. I encounter the divine on a daily basis wherever I am.

>> you can see what place Mary occupies in the public worship.<<

I’ll post this one more time. I think by the Pope’s pray we can see what status Mary has in the worship of the Catholic Church.

Let’s take the prayer of Prayer of Pope Pius XII. [http://catholicism.about.com/od/tothevirginmary/qt/Honor_Immacula.htm]

I’ll use just the bolded excerpts from the prayer.

we cast ourselves into your arms

1 Peter 5:7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you. (When did we need to replace God with Mary?)

confident of finding in your most loving heart appeasement of our ardent desires, and a safe harbor from the tempests which beset us on every side.

Hebrews 4:15-16 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need. (once again Catholics replacing Christ with Mary)

O crystal fountain of faith

Romans 12:3 according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. or "a measure of faith." (but Mary is the “fountain of faith” for Catholics)

Lily of all holiness

1 Samuel 2:2 There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God. (for Catholics however, “all holiness” is given to Mary)

Conqueress of evil and death

Hosea 13:14 I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes. (but Catholics claim it was Mary who conquered death)

Convert the wicked

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. 8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 Of sin, because they believe not on me; (Catholics have even replaced the Holy Spirit with Mary)

180 posted on 12/18/2012 1:34:04 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear
I think by the Pope’s pray we can see what status Mary has in the worship of the Catholic Church.

Prayers, even those of popes, are not doctrine. Glad I could clear that up for you.

184 posted on 12/18/2012 1:43:22 PM PST by JustSayNoToNannies ("The Lord has removed His judgments against you" - Zep. 3:15)
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To: CynicalBear

You can look for the the divine in nature, if you like, in the mass we enter the presence of the Lord in the appearances of Bread and Wine.

As for the the rest, I am sure that you are offended by such language, because you don’t understand its meaning.We cast ourselves into Mary’s arms as a child might, seeking comfort, as Jesus himself must have when confronted by terrors beyond his human understanding. We do not think of Mary as high priest, but as mother. “Fountain of Faith.” But of course, and Jesus is the living waters who issues from her womb. “Lily of all holiness” a flowering of the grace that has made her the mother of Our Lord. Does Mary conquer dead? Yes, we will all the saints who rise at the end of time, except she is what the other saints will be, except more exaulted, because she has been closer to the Almighty than we. The Holy Spirit, the glory of the Lord, covered her like a cloud and in that moment the Word was made flesh. Her mission is to convert the world by bearing the son of God.

You know the marian dogmas are at bottom, meditations on the mystery of the Incarnation of God. Too many evangelicals take the First two chapters of Luke lightly, and the Virgin Birth no more than a “sign” of the divinity of the Jesus, and fail to consider the character of the woman who gave birth to Our Lord. A person, hardly more than a child, a daughter of Zion, in human terms among the less of humans, but at the same time, the greatest, most privileged of us all.


193 posted on 12/18/2012 2:34:59 PM PST by RobbyS (Christus rex.)
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