So; I take it that you 
mine; right?
Posted on 12/17/2012 1:19:04 PM PST by RnMomof7
Then you'd have no problem with me treating her like any other mortal?
Nevertheless, the issue is who did Mary give birth to,...
No; it's not!
So; I take it that you mine; right?
Those words were also spoken of Noah, Moses, and David.
Already addressed in post #297.
In fact, Jesus Himself said that all who “hear the word of God, and keep it” are blessed. In fact He said “Nay rather which should surely get the attention of any Catholic.
In the context of Luke 1:28, 41-42, the "nay rather" is clearly a statement that the woman's focus was too narrow - as would be the focus of anyone who said that ONLY Mary should be regarded as favored by God - which is not Catholic doctrine.
So, Jesus may have had nothing to do with Simon being called Rock?
Say what? Look at that verse again.
Luke 11:27-28 27 And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked. 28 But he said, Nay rather, (Greek Menounge: nay surely, nay rather) blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.
The woman simply said “blessed is the womb” and Jesus responded with Nay rather and then went on to say that the truly blessed are those who “hear the word of God, and keep it”. No matter which way you look at it Jesus was either saying those who “hear the word of God, and keep it” are the blessed ones or that Mary is simply included with that group with no special category given her. The best anyone can come away from that verse is that Mary is no more blessed than anyone else who hears the word of God and keeps it.
Say what? Look at that verse again.
Luke 11:27-28 27 And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked. 28 But he said, Nay rather, (Greek Menounge: nay surely, nay rather) blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.
The woman simply said “blessed is the womb” and Jesus responded with Nay rather and then went on to say that the truly blessed are those who “hear the word of God, and keep it”. No matter which way you look at it Jesus was either saying those who “hear the word of God, and keep it” are the blessed ones or that Mary is simply included with that group with no special category given her.
I stand by my reading - that yours is different does not constitute a refutation of mine.
I know of at least three different meanings of "menounge". You can continue to use the one that suits your theology, I will continue to use the right one.
Peace be with you
Oh sure. Tell CB he's wrong but don't tell him what you think is right.
If you want credibility, you're going to have to do better than that.
Nobody is taking an evaluation of their being wrong just on someone else's say so. That just relegates it to opinion.
If you want anyone to take you seriously, you need to back up what you say.
Save it. I’m not listening.
Although this is a public forum I did not respond to Cynicalbear for your benefit. Since the definition of menounge has been discussed ad naseum between Cynicalbear and me and among many other freepers in the past I does not warrant repeating for your benefit. If you do not know how to research the multiple definitions of menounge and the linguistic differences in usage between Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek and modern English I would be glad to give you some pointers off line.
As for backing up what I say, I would venture that the verifiable truthfulness of my posting history far surpases yours as the last two days will affirm.
Peace be with you
Elsie:
Well apparently the Council of Ephesus in 431AD disagrees with you. So, I will side the the Council of Ephesus and you can side with Elsie and the theology formulated inside your own mind.
That is certainly one of the possibilites.
And, it's the RIGHT one because your church has SAID it's the right one.
No; PLEASE!!!
Share your excellence right in the open forum.
It'll take EXACTLY the same amount of typing effort.
Well; this is the first line of this thread; so somehow I managed to get off track thinking it was about something else.
In the history of Roman Catholic dogma, one can trace an evolution in the theory of tradition.
Then you'd have no problem with me treating her like any other mortal?
Stay on what I typed, please; and don't go dragging yet another red herring across the trail.
Elsie:
I am staying on what you typed, there was a second set of statements in your post, related to the question of who was it that Mary gave birth to. Your response was “No it was Not”
It is the statement that Mary is “mortal” that seems, in your view, to be an issue. Mary is a human being, just like anyone else, although tru God’s Grace, she is a visible example of what God’s Grace does to humanity, she is the model of Christian holiness, faith and virture.
Thus, for a Catholic and the Eastern Orthodox Church to refer to Mary as Most Holy Theotokos, etc, does not make her less human, in fact, it makes here More human, in the sense that she is a visible reflection of God’s Grace transforming human nature into Holiness [i.e., a Saint] and is what the goal of Christ’s incarnation, passion, death, resurrection and ascension into to heaven is, the infuse into us his Grace so that we come into full communion with the Trinity and we are transformed in holiness.
To the contrary, what the titles that the Catholic Church applies to Mary [Eastern Orthodox apply them to her as well] are rooted in Christology and all of them show what God’s Grace does to fallen humanity, it reconciles and resotres us back to our “True Humanity”, that is in full communion with Almighty God.
So, there is no red herring and the statement still stands, you reject the Council of Ephesus in 431AD and I fully embrace it. The theological positions stated at Ephesus “Do not align with yours” and since I accept the Decrees and canons of Ephesus as “Dogmatic definitions of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church”, your views differ from mine as well.
In the grand scheme of things, I would much rather my views align the Council of Ephesus than a “FR Protestant internet sola scriptura, sola meo, sola ego, bible scholar”
We have been through this before. Each time it’s used it is used to refute or change what has been previously said. Strong’s, Helps, and NAS all say it is used to contradict what has been said.
Infallible means holding to true north, no matter which way the winds blow, or how high the seas rise. The Church is like a ship, the pope the captain, and the Holy Spirit the compass showing us which way to go
Infallible means holding to true north, no matter which way the winds blow, or how high the seas rise. The Church is like a ship, the pope the captain, and the Holy Spirit the compass showing us which way to go
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