Crossing the Jordan into the Inner Meaning [New Church, Open]

Spirit and Life Bible Study ^ | Wed Nov 28, 2012 | Rev Dr Johnathon Rose

[DaveMSmith]

Everything in the Old Testament history leads up to the crossing of the Jordan, and yet the way the story is told in Joshua 3 and 4 has major inconsistencies and problems. Is there another way to read it?

Can the Bible be taken literally?

[HarleyD]

Exodus 14:13-15 is one of my most favorite passages in scripture and I believe people don't see the humorous situation. Here's the passage in its entirety:

Exo 14:13 And Moses said to the people, "Fear not, stand firm, and see the salvation of the LORD, which he will work for you today. For the Egyptians whom you see today, you shall never see again.

Exo 14:14 The LORD will fight for you, and you have only to be silent."

Exo 14:15 The LORD said to Moses, "Why do you cry to me? Tell the people of Israel to go forward.

Every time I read this passage I picture Moses majestically standing on a hill saying, "Stand still and God will fight for us." Meanwhile God has His plans and is saying, "What?!? Are you nuts!!! RUN!!!!" God's plan was exactly to cross the Red Sea so He could take care of the Egyptians. Moses knew that God would take care of them but couldn't understand how. Moses needed a swift kick in the pants-er, robe, to get moving.

This is a perfect case of where God always has a perfect plan for us but we think we know better. We just cannot see or understand God's will for our lives and must trust Him. He always has the perfect situation for us waiting around the corner. We just have to go forward.

[Rashputin]

Right now my favorite verse would be the one that described a way to fix the heater.

[Rashputin]

OOPS !!

Sorry, I was glancing back and forth at the screen and confused you with someone on the a whole different site where I was talking about heater repairs.

I should have realized when you listed your favorite verses that I was looking at the wrong screen.

Sorry.

Regards

[HarleyD]

Rom_8:28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.

One of the most quoted but unbelieved verses in scripture.

[HarleyD]

Not a problem. See God meant for you to have that verse. :O)

[Rashputin]

Oh, I believe it very much. It’s also the verse this other guy had just quoted to me which is why I wasn’t surprised to see a list of verses.

I’m looking at the bright side. Now I know for sure we won’t run out of gas over the weekend before the Monday delivery. ;-)

[HarleyD]

These things always have the worst time to go out. I remember half of my electricity in the house going out two days before I was going to have a house full of company. I had to literally have the house rewired in one day.

The heating system seldom goes out when they’re servicing it. Instead it always seems to go out on the weekend when calling a repairman is the most difficult-and expensive. We have a fireplace just for these moments. It doesn’t heat the house but it keeps the house warm enough so the pipes don’t freeze. Still it’s frustrating.

[trebb]

...else, why some 30,000+ sects of Christianity that all claim the same Bible? No problem; as Christianity has been 'restored'. NOW there is only ONE correct church. (So I've been told... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sects_in_the_Latter_Day_Saint_movement )

Wow - took a stretch to take another swat at Mormonism, but you managed. Your type response is one of the reasons I decided to go non-denominational and just stick with the Word as written in the Bible. ALL religions have some screwy ideas because they were formed by men who interpreted the Bible (or some other "divine revelation") differently and decided it needed to be part of the Church's teaching. If we ignore religious differences and concentrate on Biblical Truth, we have a more unified Christian bloc, but unfortunately the religion gets in the way of the reason for the religion.

[Biggirl]

What I meant is that point out what is wrong, but do it in LOVE as a Christian.

[Biggirl]

Thank-you for answering my concerns that you are not attacking other Christians. This is what I both wanted and needed to hear. God Bless you. :)

[Elsie]

just off the top of my head, and several prophecies of Christ are very clear, there are other doctrines clarified and clearly mentioned but I feel sure those who don't accept the entire Bible will just dismiss those things as unimportant.

You still didn't make the IMPORTANCE of these things clear to me.

[Elsie]

The comment about Peter as if he didn't know the name Christ gave him or could only relate to earlier references to the word Rock.

Here are ALL my 'comments'.

Could you point to the one you mean; as I cannot tell from your description alone.

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Is Peter the 'rock'?

 

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As you can see, Simon was already known as 'Peter' 

BEFORE the following verses came along.....

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But, since there WAS no NT at the time Christ spoke to Peter, just what DID Peter and the rest of the Disciples know about ROCKS???

 

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.....No other rock.............

And now you know the Biblical position!

[Elsie]

Or, did I miss you trying to show that Christ was using the only Aramaic word for Rock when he said both to and of Peter that He would build His Church on this Rock?

Are you trying to say the Jesus was speaking GREEK for all of the others things He said?

[Elsie]

Or, did I miss you trying to show that Christ was using the only Aramaic word for Rock when he said both to and of Peter that He would build His Church on this Rock?

Are you trying to maintain Jesus was NOT referring to, the REVELATION of the Holy Spirit to PETER, as being the ROCK?

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My Faith is Built on Nothing Less...

[Elsie]

or understood!

No one wants to be like JOB any more!

Last month; I went to 4 funerals in 23 days.

The Saturday after the second one, wew received word that our old time pastor had died. 2 hours later we received word that my wife’s aunt had passed away.

I wondered out loud, “What next? A ‘great wind from the wilderness’ bearing down on us?

[Elsie]

Ah!

You must live in the boonies, too!

“Honey; it’s COLD in here. Did you check the gas like I told you to in August?”

[Elsie]

Wow - took a stretch to take another swat at Mormonism, but you managed.

I'll 'swat' it anytime I please!

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Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).

Joseph Smith: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).

 

 

 

Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).

 

 

 

Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).

 

 

 

Orson Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses

, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses , 18:172).

 

 

President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses , 10:127).

 

 

 

James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).

 

 

 

President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).

 

 

 

More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).

 

 

 

President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).

 

 

President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 2, p.196).

[Elsie]

Your type response is one of the reasons I decided to go non-denominational and just stick with the Word as written in the Bible.

Well; I posted a LOT of verses pertaining to False teashings and False Messiahs; so I guess you'll being taking them to heart, and putting on the WHOLE armor of GOD and be heading out to battle like a Christian Soldier soon; right?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFQUOxcYmLY

[Elsie]

What I meant is that point out what is wrong, but do it in LOVE as a Christian.

And what shape will this LOVE take?

GOD is LOVE; right?

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Matthew 15:16
   "Are you still so dull?" Jesus asked them.

Matthew 23

 

  1.  Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples:
  2.  "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat.
  3.  So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
  4.  They tie up heavy loads and put them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
  5.  "Everything they do is done for men to see: They make their phylacteries  wide and the tassels on their garments long;
  6.  they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues;
  7.  they love to be greeted in the marketplaces and to have men call them `Rabbi.'
  8.  "But you are not to be called `Rabbi,' for you have only one Master and you are all brothers.
  9.  And do not call anyone on earth `father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.
 10.  Nor are you to be called `teacher,' for you have one Teacher, the Christ.
 11.  The greatest among you will be your servant.
 12.  For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.
 13.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to. 
 14.  Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation. 
 15.   "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are. 
 16.  "Woe to you, blind guides! You say, `If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.'
 17.  You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred?
 18.  You also say, `If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gift on it, he is bound by his oath.'
 19.  You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred?
 20.  Therefore, he who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it.
 21.  And he who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it.
 22.  And he who swears by heaven swears by God's throne and by the one who sits on it.
 23.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices--mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.
 24.  You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.
 25.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence.
 26.  Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.
 27.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites!  You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean.
 28.  In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.
 29.  "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous.
 30.  And you say, `If we had lived in the days of our forefathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.'
 31.  So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets.
 32.  Fill up, then, the measure of the sin of your forefathers!
 33.  "You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?
 34.  Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.
 35.  And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.
 36.  I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation.
 37.  "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing.
 38.  Look, your house is left to you desolate.
 39.  For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, `Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.' "

 

Mark 7:26-27
 26.  The woman was a Greek, born in Syrian Phoenicia. She begged Jesus to drive the demon out of her daughter.
 27.  "First let the children eat all they want," he told her, "for it is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs."

 

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And St. Paul chimes in...

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Galatians 5:12
   As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!

 

[Elsie]

GOD is LOVE; right?

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Creating a whip from some cords, "he drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and the oxen, and poured out the changers’ money and overturned the tables. But he said to those who sold doves, ‘Get these out of here! Do not make My Father’s house a house of trade!’"

John 2:13-16

"And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all of them who sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves, And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves."

—Matthew 21:12-13