"Has no one ever explained to you that science does not deal in "truth"?"
"Please. Don't make yourself angry"
"As for your obvious alarm over some alleged "subjectivist" notion"
"You obviously don't understand what the term "organic chemical" means"
"First, only in your own little parallel universe has evolution been "progressively disproven."
"I suspect your problem is that, having never actually studied the science of evolution, your mind is chock full of misinformation about it.
"First, a very simple question: Do you know anything whatever about woodpeckers -- have you ever actually studied them scientifically?
I thought not. So here are some basics:"
"Yes, I am familiar with the issues involved in your little "test".
"Questions like this display your collosal ignorance"
"Even though you quoted my words verbatim, you obviously still did not understand them."
"Think about it a moment and you'll realize that my words are exactly right, and yours are, well, a bit confused."
These are some examples of your posts to people on this thread. The tone of your remarks is consistently patronizing and condescending. You are hardly in a position to play the scold.
"Sure, but that doesn't suggest God did not intend for humans to eat them, or that plants and animals didn't normally eat or get eaten before Adam's sin. Nowhere does the Bible suggests such extraordinary things.
The Bible suggests all sorts of extraordinary things--by our standards, that is. Not God's. Regardless of that, this is more Alice in Wonderland down-the-rabbit-hole thinking. Do you know of a way that humans can eat animals without shedding their blood and killing them?
You DID have to look up "beginning?" Really?
"More important, the Bible simply cannot be understood without first translation, and second interpretation.
Both processes provide lots of room for human error, opinions and disputes.
Just one small example of this we've already seen in your post #79 and my response #81 regarding declarations from the Council of Nicea in 325 AD -- confirmed and expanded in later councils, none of which can be found in precise language in the Bible itself.
To arrive at those creeds, you have to interpret the Bible, and where there is interpretation, there also are opinions, errors and disputes."
When interpreting what a text says, one should logically interpret it the way someone would interpret what you or I would write. We wouldn't want others trying to read all sorts of things into our writings; neither should we do that with Scripture.
BJK, the Bible is God's love letter to us---His invaluable message of salvation, and His manual for the way we should conduct our lives. We need to approach the text with humility, with His intended meaning in mind----not with intellectual pride, believing that we're so enlightened we must know what He "really" means. As Jesus said, "I have spoken openly to the world … I always taught in synagogues or at the temple, where all the Jews come together. I said nothing in secret" (John 18:20).
If your friend sends you an email which says, "Can you drive me to work tomorrow?", what do you assume it means? Well, just what it says. You don't sit and think about it, and twist it around in your mind until you decide, "Maybe he's saying he's going to get a divorce."
Well....maybe you do, BJK. You've already debated whether we're really washing machines, and whether another Freeper is a banana. Do you see what you get out of that kind of thinking? Nothing concrete, nothing logical, nothing even remotely sensible. Approaching Scripture in such a manner is very unwise.
“The entrance of Your words gives light; it gives understanding to the simple” (Psalm 119:130)" See? Nothing esoteric or complicated there. Jesus was always saying, "Have you not read?" Why would He say that if the meaning of Scripture wasn't plain?
As for the evolution mess, I believe there are many folks---not necessarily you, but I don't know you----who think they MUST tout evolution or be counted among the toothless, snake-charming hillbillies who believe in a literal creation. The only thing that matters to me is what Scripture says. Anything which can be shown to contradict it, such as evolution, is by definition false.
I'm going to have to leave it here...you're right in that we're never going to agree, so we're using up bandwidth for nothing. Also, I don't have the time for these long posts!
If you're not done, I give you the last word. :) Peace, friend.
Of the 12 lines you quoted, two are directed at albionin, a self-professed atheist "objectivist".
One quoted line is a simple factual statement directed at editor-surveyor -- editor-surveyor is confused by certain scientific terms.
Six quoted lines are directed at jda, whose own posts epitomize, in your description: "consistently patronizing and condescending."
Three quoted lines are directed at you, CofA, and they are accurate, specific and appropriate to your posts.
By contrast, the lines I quoted from you lack content, specificity and appropriateness, in addition to being disrespectful.
So let me suggest there's a difference between being blunt and just insulting.
I've occasionally been the former, and you more frequently the latter, FRiend. ;-)
CofA: "You are hardly in a position to play the scold."
I have not "scolded" anyone for anything, merely pointed out some errors in their or your posts.
CofA: "Do you know of a way that humans can eat animals without shedding their blood and killing them?"
Sorry for pointing this out, but yet again, you sound confused.
Remember, it is you who suggests there was "no death" of any kind before Adam's sin.
It is you who claims this implies that even animals and plants did not naturally eat or were eaten.
I merely point out that such extraordinary claims are not, in fact, made anywhere in the Bible, and that they are necessarily a matter of your unique interpretations -- interpretations that many believers do not necessarily agree with.
Indeed, Genesis 1 specifically says God gave mankind "dominion" to "subdue" animals and plants for food.
So your suggestion there was "no death" before Adam's sin is a bit far-fetched, I'd say.
CofA: "You DID have to look up "beginning?" Really?"
Again, sorry, but you sound confused.
First you argued that I somehow don't understand the word "beginning", and suggested I look it up.
So when I proved to you that it means exactly what I said it means, and not what you think, your response here is, well, incomprehensible.
CofA: "If your friend sends you an email which says, "Can you drive me to work tomorrow?", what do you assume it means?
Well, just what it says."
Or not, depending on unspecified details, it could mean a variety of things -- details like: what time, what vehicle, what route, which passengers, what pick-up point, which work site, etc.?
Since, in your hypothetical example, these are not specified, the email must be analyzed and interpreted according to some criteria -- interpretations which are naturally subject to human error.
And that, again, is my point on this subject: regardless of how divinely inspired the Bible is, it's words were first translated through Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek and Latin to Old or Modern English -- a process in which much could be lost.
Indeed, how many dozens of different translations are available today, each claiming to be more accurate than the others?
And what objective criteria can a layman use to decide which is the "best" translation?
Second, again, even after you (or your church) decide on the "best" translation, you must still interpret the words according to your best understandings of what they might mean.
CofA: "The only thing that matters to me is what Scripture says.
Anything which can be shown to contradict it, such as evolution, is by definition false."
The facts of science (not just evolution theory) contradict your interpretations of what Scripture means.
That does not necessarily mean Scripture is wrong, it could instead mean your interpretations are wrong, or, it even might mean God created scientific facts at odds with scripture in order to challenge and provoke us into thinking more deeply about what we see in the Universe.