Guess Who?

Mormon Reasearch Ministry ^ | Mormon Reasearch Ministry

[reaganaut]

Members of the LDS Church are familiar with the charge that Mormonism isn't a Christian faith. They hear it often enough, but they really don't understand why people think that. "We are Christians," Mormon President Gordon B. Hinckley insisted. "We have the name of Jesus Christ right in the name of our Church, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. We follow Christ. We worship Him. We love Him. He is the center of all we do"("Inspirational Thoughts," Liahona, June 1999, 3; 2 Nephi 25:24-29).

In the summer of 2005 we asked Mormons in Nauvoo, Illinois to take a quiz we called "Guess Who?" The quiz consisted of 15 relatively recent statements made by LDS leaders; we asked the participants to see if they could determine who their Church leaders were talking about. We invite you to take the same quiz. The answers will be at the end; see if you can do this without scrolling down for the answers.

His teachings "are the foundation of our faith. Everything we have is a lengthened shadow of [him]."

"I pray we may learn from his example, that we might incorporate into our lives the great principles which he so beautifully taught; that we ourselves might emulate him;..."

"I honor and revere [his] name... I delight to hear it; I love it. I love his doctrine... I am his witness."

"He died for those he loved. He reigns in the realms above."

"The more I learn of him, the more I love and revere him."

"I look to him. I love him. I seek to follow him."

"He not only gave us joy, happiness and opportunity here, but also a great hope in the life to come."

"Today, this Sabbath day, in many thousands of congregations, perhaps as many as twenty-one thousand, in many areas of the earth, our people have sung or will sing the praises of [him]."

"Of noble seed, of heavenly birth, he came to bless the sons of earth."

He was "a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief."

"Church members are interested in learning more about [him] because they love him and they love the gospel he brought forth."

"How great indeed is our debt to him. ...Great is his glory,... We stand in reverence before him... Let us not forget him. Let not his memory be forgotten in the celebration of Christmas."

"...and he shall stand in due time on the earth, in the flesh, and fulfill that to which he is appointed."

"The light, provided to the world by [him], illuminates the confusion, clarifies the principles of the gospel, and helps lead men and women to their own eternal reward, if they will but endure to the end."

The "work that has been carried out by President Young and his brethren [of the Twelve] has been in accordance with the plans, and designs, and Spirit, and instructions of [him]."

How did you do?

If you thought these statements were about Jesus—the One Mormons claim to worship and adore, the One they say is the center of all they do—you are incorrect. In each statement above, the speaker was talking about Joseph Smith.

Quotes with References

His teachings "are the foundation of our faith. Everything we have is a lengthened shadow of [him]." (15th President Gordon B. Hinckley, Church News, 3/19/2005, p.3.)

"I pray we may learn from his example, that we might incorporate into our lives the great principles which he so beautifully taught; that we ourselves might emulate him;..." (Thomas Monson (First Presidency), Ensign, 6/1994, p.7.)

"I honor and revere [his] name... I delight to hear it; I love it. I love his doctrine... I am his witness." (2nd President Brigham Young, quoted in Ensign, 1/1996, p.7.)

"He died for those he loved. He reigns in the realms above." (3rd President John Taylor, Hymns #296, "The Seer, Joseph, The Seer." While this hymn was written in the 18th century, it is still in use as evidenced by its performance by the Mormon Tabernacle Choir during the 175th Semi-Annual General Conference of the LDS Church in October, 2005.)

"The more I learn of him, the more I love and revere him." (Apostle Joseph B. Wirthlin, Church News, 2/19/2005, p.5.)

"I look to him. I love him. I seek to follow him." (15th Gordon B. Hinckley, Church News, 12/13/2003, p.3.)

"He not only gave us joy, happiness and opportunity here, but also a great hope in the life to come." (Apostle L. Tom Perry, Church News, 7/3/1993, p.4.)

"Today, this Sabbath day, in many thousands of congregations, perhaps as many as twenty-one thousand, in many areas of the earth, our people have sung or will sing the praises of [him]." (15th President Gordon B. Hinckley, Ensign, 9/1994, p.62.)

"Of noble seed, of heavenly birth, he came to bless the sons of earth." (John Taylor, Hymns #296, "The Seer, Joseph, The Seer.")

He was "a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief." (BYU Professor Robert Millet, Ensign, 9/1994, p.19.)

"Church members are interested in learning more about [him] because they love him and they love the gospel he brought forth." (LDS Church Historian Glen M. Leonard, Church News, 12/6/1997, p.4.)

"How great indeed is our debt to him. ...Great is his glory,... We stand in reverence before him... Let us not forget him. Let not his memory be forgotten in the celebration of Christmas." (15th President Gordon B. Hinckley, Ensign, 12/1997, p.2.)

"...and he shall stand in due time on the earth, in the flesh, and fulfill that to which he is appointed." (Church News, 7/19/1994, p.5.)

"The light, provided to the world by [him], illuminates the confusion, clarifies the principles of the gospel, and helps lead men and women to their own eternal reward, if they will but endure to the end." (Church News, 12/13/1997, p.16.)

The "work that has been carried out by President Young and his brethren [of the Twelve] has been in accordance with the plans, and designs, and Spirit, and instructions of [him]." (George A. Smith (First Presidency), quoted in Church News, 12/20/1997, p.7.)

[svcw]

This thread is in the Religion Forum section of FR.

How do people not see the list of forums on the right side of the page.......

If you are not interested in religious discussions don’t join the Religion Forum threads.

(pssst, Look at the top right corner of the original post and you will see “Religion Forum”, that’s how you will know you are on the Religion Forum forum.

[reaganaut]

This post is in the Religion Forum, not news/activism.

I win.

[RnMomof7]

Do you understand the forum divisions?

[Saundra Duffy]

Vendome wrote about Mormons, that Mormons say: “In fact, all Christians are “Whores of Babylon”

Holy Moly! I have been a Mormon for 12 years, and admittedly that’s not a long time, but during that time I have never heard any such thing as you state!!

However, I have heard so-called Christians or “gracers” (as you call them) make statements about the Catholic Church being the “great whore of Babylon” spoken of in the Bible.

So, knock off the anti Mormon nonsense, please, and the anti Catholic nonsense, too.

Jesus suffered and died for Mormons and Catholics, too.

[Saundra Duffy]

Vendome wrote about Mormons, that Mormons say: “In fact, all Christians are “Whores of Babylon”

Holy Moly! I have been a Mormon for 12 years, and admittedly that’s not a long time, but during that time I have never heard any such thing as you state!!

However, I have heard so-called Christians or “gracers” (as you call them) make statements about the Catholic Church being the “great whore of Babylon” spoken of in the Bible.

So, knock off the anti Mormon nonsense, please, and the anti Catholic nonsense, too.

Jesus suffered and died for Mormons and Catholics, too.

[Saundra Duffy]

Thank you for posting the words to one of my favorite LDS hymns! Yes, we revere and honor Joseph Smith who died as a martyr. Murdered in cold blood.

Go ahead and make fun of the Prophet Joseph Smith. Jump on the band wagon and dog pile on. It mattereth not.

Now, about Jesus Christ, the Head of the Church, our Savior, Lord, Master, Redeemer, and Soon-Coming King - He is the reason our Church was formed.

So I don’t know what you point is - yes, we appreciate the sacrifice of Joseph Smith but Jesus is our Lord. Amen.

Pretty darn tricky, you, though. But cheer up - maybe you can get me banned/zotted again so you won’t have to be tormented by my love for the Savior Jesus Christ.

[Saundra Duffy]

Ladyjane - Don’t let them disturb you. Supposedly, threads on the religious forum are fair game - unless it is a caucus or something.

FYI - I was banned/zotted from this site for about a year. Before I was banned/zotted, however, I was forbidden by the religion mods from posting using caucus, ecumenical, or devotional. In other words - MORMONS NOT WELCOME.

Not much has changed, unfortunately. I do not like the way the anti Mormons/anti MormonISM folk dog pile on anyone who disagrees w/them. It ain’t very Christian and it ain’t very American IMHO.

For victory & freedom!!!

[ladyjane]

Saundra, I was wondering why I didn’t see your name here on FR.

I don’t particularly want to hang out at the religious forum but I like to see all posts to the site. As a result I think I get them all. Sometimes I am on a very slow wi-fi and there are some incredibly long involved posts to the religion forum that just will not come through. I can deal with that.

What I can’t deal with is the very un-Christian angry intolerant rants. Our forefathers came here to avoid intolerance of religious beliefs. And where do I find it - in spades - here on FR! Our forefathers risked their lives, the lives of their families and their livlihoods to get to a place that would be tolerant of all kinds of religious beliefs. They thought they had found the place.

Unfortunately only certain groups have freedom. Athiests, Druids, and Islamists are okay and are tolerated. For some reason Mormons aren’t. Who can figure.

[Vendome]

Saundra:
Really, I’ve no axe to grind with LDS. I do want to make educate others and they are free to make their own choice.

Nothing about LDS offends me, nothing.

I’m giving information that I have found interesting and others may attach whatever their emotions to it they wish.

Let’s face it, There is no LDS if all other religions and denominations are an aboniation as Joseph Smith describes us.

To me the accusation is “Whatever”.

Most of us aren’t offended by any other religion save the Moslems. I can’t see myself ever giving them any respect and I’ll leave it to you to figure it out. Any reason you think of will be part of the buffet of grievances I have against them.

I don’t Christians Gracers. I was called a gracer and while I laughed for it’s stupid implication I did research why it is said and still came to the conclusion “Whatever”.

As for the Catholics I have nothing against them as you imply or project. They are the first church and the word “Catholic” means “Universal” or taken as it should be “ inclusive to all in the body of Christ”.

And Yes, The Nazarene dies for Mormons, Catholics and even Buddhists.

I understand when Mormon’s find them themselves without or even wanting for information that insults them.

You have been exposed to something you never had knowledge of and it’s an affront. I get it.

However, I don’t make up the facts and when I find myself in error I repent of that of and apologize.

So, to honor that vein, here is a picture of Joseph Smith, standing upon a pedestal, in....wait for it.... Temple Square.

See my follow up post for proof and a better understanding of where I’m coming from.

Thank you in advance for your open mind.

[Vendome]

The only reason they say "We are Christian" is an attempt to morph into something they are not and co-opt Christianity.

 

"What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world"
- Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr., Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 270

"...all the priests who adhere to the sectarian religions of the day with all their followers, without one exception, receive their portion with the devil and his angels."
- Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr. , The Elders Journal, v. 1, no. 4, p. 60

"With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world."
- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 8, p.

"Christians—those poor, miserable priests brother Brigham was speaking about—some of them are the biggest whoremasters there are on the earth, and at the same time preaching righteousness to the children of men. The poor devils, they could not get up here and preach an oral discourse, to save themselves from hell; they are preaching their fathers' sermons —preaching sermons that were written a hundred years before they were born. ...You may get a Methodist priest to pour water on you, or sprinkle it on you, and baptize you face foremost, or lay you down the other way, and whatever mode you please, and you will be damned with your priest.
- Apostle Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, v. 5, p. 89

"What! Are Christians ignorant? Yes, as ignorant of the things of God as the brute beast."
- Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, v. 13, p. 225

"Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the ‘whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent."
- Apostle Orson Pratt, The Seer, p. 255

"After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon."
- Apostle George Q. Cannon, Gospel Truth, p. 324

“Believers in the doctrines of modern Christendom will reap damnation to their souls.”
- Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, see pp. 45-46

"I was answered that I must join none of them (Christian Churches), for they were all wrong...that all their creeds were an abomination in His sight" (Joseph Smith History 1:19).

"...orthodox Christian views of God are Pagan rather than Christian." (Mormon Doctrine of Deity by B.H. Roberts, p.116)

"...the God whom the 'Christians' worship is a being of their own creation..." (Apostle Charles W. Penrose, JD 23:243)

"The Christian world, so called, are heathens as to their knowledge of the salvation of God." (Brigham Young, JD 8:171)

"What! Are Christians ignorant? Yes, as ignorant of the things of God as the brute best." (John Taylor, JD 13:225)

"What does the Christian world know about God? Nothing...Why so far as the things of God are concerned, they are the veriest fools; they know neither God nor the things of God." (John Taylor, JI) 13:225)

"Believers in the doctrines of modern Christendom will reap damnation to their souls (Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p.177)

"...brother Joseph B. Nobles once told a Methodist priest, after hearing him describe his god, that the god they worshiped was the "Mormon's" Devil-a being without a body, whereas our God has a body, parts and passions." (Brigham Young, JD 5:331)

"...the great apostate church as the anti-christ...This great antichrist...is the church of the devil." (Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine p.40)

"Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the "whore of Babylon" whom the lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness." (Pratt, The Seer, p.255)

 

“God is not at its head, making that church [i.e., Christianity] – following the appearance in it of Satan – no longer the church of God. To say that Satan sits in the place of God in Christianity after the time of the apostles is not to say that all that is in it is Satanic.”
- Kent P. Jackson, “Early Signs of Apostasy,” Ensign, December 1984, p. 9

1 Nephi 14:10 "Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of god, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth."

"Orthodox Christian views of God are pagan rather than Christian" (Mormon Doctrine of Deity, B. H. Roberts [General Authority], 116).

Brigham Young: “…and he that confesseth not that Jesus has come in the flesh and sent Joseph Smith with the fullness of the Gospel to this generation, is not of God, but is Antichrist.” (Journal of Discourses, Vol 9 pg 312).

Mormon Apostle Hyrum M. Smith,- “In fact, my brethren and sisters, if the falsity of a religion can be measured in any degree by the amount of trouble and turmoil and strife and bitterness and hatred that it has engendered in the hearts of men, if it can be judged by the number of wars it has carried on and the rivers of blood it has shed, the amount of misery and sorrow, it has caused, or the extremes of impurity, found among its adherents, then Christianity, that which is known as Christianity, is the falsest of all religions in the world… The trouble is, as God declared to Joseph the Prophet, mankind have gone astray. Their religions are an abomination in his sight, and their professors are corrupt because they have turned away from the truth and have turned unto fables.” (Conference Report, October 1916, p.43).

 

 

The plaque above is found in Temple Square with Joseph Smith a top it.

Do the Latter Day Saints corporately and collectively believe this and support that view point?  Of course they do.  Otherwise, if there is no resurrected church then there is no LDS.

But everyone outside their group is "Anti-Mormon"?  LOL  They are Anti-Christian and seek not only to undermine Christianity and their beliefs but outright work to subordinate one man to another, in that one must accept the Prophets words as sacrosanct and inviolable.

No man pays fealty to another as their superior because thier so called god ordains it.

 

Sohhhhhh, I'll knock it off when Mormons decide to join the larger Body of Christ but, right now you are an exclusive religion that "Excludes" all others when defining just who and who is not a Christian. 

God welcomes all, of their own free will and LDS does not have the imprimatur of deciding who and who is not a Christian, which in your case demands they be LDS.  Nor does God demand we prove ourselves worthy so all the other "Christians" can look upon us approvingly.  We can discuss they why and why not of that latter.

[Vendome]

Quick question:

Do you believe I am a Christian and entitled to all God has in store for me in heaven, with no other precondition than that of having accepted Jesus Christ as my savior?

I’ll give you what I believe my 1st disqualifier is under LDS definition of who is not a Christian: I’m a Baptist or rather a Christian who raised a Baptist.

Think carefully, I provided proof of Joseph Smith’s problems with everyone else and I can provide proof of who your Prophets regard our spiritual state and that of many who belonged to the Council of 70, Quorum, etc. Heck, I’ll even throw in some Bishops and founding members.

Thank you, by the way, for at least discussing our differences, if only a little.

[Religion Moderator]

LDS posters lost the privilege of using “caucus” and other tags because the tags were being used as cover to take pot shots at the beliefs of others.

[Saundra Duffy]

Christians are those who believe in and follow the Savior Jesus Christ. I have never heard of any disqualifiers in LDS.

[Saundra Duffy]

Looks like I am going to get banned/zotted again for stating my heart felt beliefs on a place called “free” republic.

[Saundra Duffy]

Thank you for #408. I was banned/zotted for almost a year for posting stuff the mods didn’t agree with. So much for religious freedom. I am a Mormon and they are tormented by my undying love for the Savior - they call me a liar and that I am deceived. You see what happens here. It’s the same old same old same old and so long as the same mods are allowed to stifle free speech (when it comes to LDS), we are screwed.

(this post will probably be taken down but maybe you can read it before that happens)

[Vendome]

So, do you consider me a Christian the same as you.

That question is really the crux of my difference with LDS. Not the people mind you. I know around 150 LDS and they are the greatest people ever.

Not because they are LDS but, that is their nature.

Still, I have been told and given the qualifiers of what a Christian is to LDS and the opportunity I’ll have to become LDS during my resting period after I pass from this life.

Thank you for responding. BTW, do you live in the western states?

I am thinking after my shoulder gets better’ish of taking a road trip early 2013 and would love to meet you.

I’m going to make it a point to finally meet many Freepers I’ve spoken with as well, I’ll be stopping in ID, UT, CO and Oklahoma. I might even go to Yellowstone since I’m at it.

It’d be great to meet you.

V

[Saundra Duffy]

I am a Christian and you are a Christian - since we both believe that Jesus Christ is our Savior who suffered and died to save us from our sins. Why is this controversial? I have no idea. There are doctrinal differences among all the religions but Jesus Christ being the Savior is the main thing, right?

Joseph Smith, when he was 14, was confused about which church to join since there was great contention at that time. It is a fact that there were many different denominations coming through to obtain converts to their particular persuasion. Anyway, I can certainly relate to that - people seeking the right Church to join. Heavenly Father and Jesus appeared to Joseph and told him, among other things, not to join any of them. About 4 years later, after Heavenly interventions, the LDS Church was born. It’s not all that weird and strange. Our Church history is just wonderful - with the pioneer spirit, severe persecutions, murders, and Goodness winning out in the end.

Like I said, I do not know why this is so controversial. We are all children of our Heavenly Father. Jesus Christ’s infinite Atonement makes it all possible and the Holy Ghost is there to lead the way.

I used to live in California but, as you can imagine, we left so as to escape the hideous nightmare that California has become. We live in Utah now. Much better!!

[Godzilla]

Wow! Just wow! What power you wield! The power to shut down religious freedom, freedom of speech, freedom of association, and every other freedom I can think of - to one particular group - Mormons! Wow! Just wow!

SD, there are other 'religious' groups that fare far worse than the mormons have, many zotted upon detection. However, you seem to forget the circumstances that forced the RM to cancel caucus/ec/devotional thread - mormons were using them as part of the mormon 'hose the pigs' campaign against Christians here who had the audacity to disagree with the wholesale propaganda that was being posted daily. Mormons abused the rules and left the Mods with little choice. Like most of the 'persecutions' mormons cry about - mormons picked the fight as much as their 'persecutors'.