Guess Who?

Mormon Reasearch Ministry ^ | Mormon Reasearch Ministry

[reaganaut]

Members of the LDS Church are familiar with the charge that Mormonism isn't a Christian faith. They hear it often enough, but they really don't understand why people think that. "We are Christians," Mormon President Gordon B. Hinckley insisted. "We have the name of Jesus Christ right in the name of our Church, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. We follow Christ. We worship Him. We love Him. He is the center of all we do"("Inspirational Thoughts," Liahona, June 1999, 3; 2 Nephi 25:24-29).

In the summer of 2005 we asked Mormons in Nauvoo, Illinois to take a quiz we called "Guess Who?" The quiz consisted of 15 relatively recent statements made by LDS leaders; we asked the participants to see if they could determine who their Church leaders were talking about. We invite you to take the same quiz. The answers will be at the end; see if you can do this without scrolling down for the answers.

His teachings "are the foundation of our faith. Everything we have is a lengthened shadow of [him]."

"I pray we may learn from his example, that we might incorporate into our lives the great principles which he so beautifully taught; that we ourselves might emulate him;..."

"I honor and revere [his] name... I delight to hear it; I love it. I love his doctrine... I am his witness."

"He died for those he loved. He reigns in the realms above."

"The more I learn of him, the more I love and revere him."

"I look to him. I love him. I seek to follow him."

"He not only gave us joy, happiness and opportunity here, but also a great hope in the life to come."

"Today, this Sabbath day, in many thousands of congregations, perhaps as many as twenty-one thousand, in many areas of the earth, our people have sung or will sing the praises of [him]."

"Of noble seed, of heavenly birth, he came to bless the sons of earth."

He was "a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief."

"Church members are interested in learning more about [him] because they love him and they love the gospel he brought forth."

"How great indeed is our debt to him. ...Great is his glory,... We stand in reverence before him... Let us not forget him. Let not his memory be forgotten in the celebration of Christmas."

"...and he shall stand in due time on the earth, in the flesh, and fulfill that to which he is appointed."

"The light, provided to the world by [him], illuminates the confusion, clarifies the principles of the gospel, and helps lead men and women to their own eternal reward, if they will but endure to the end."

The "work that has been carried out by President Young and his brethren [of the Twelve] has been in accordance with the plans, and designs, and Spirit, and instructions of [him]."

How did you do?

If you thought these statements were about Jesus—the One Mormons claim to worship and adore, the One they say is the center of all they do—you are incorrect. In each statement above, the speaker was talking about Joseph Smith.

Quotes with References

His teachings "are the foundation of our faith. Everything we have is a lengthened shadow of [him]." (15th President Gordon B. Hinckley, Church News, 3/19/2005, p.3.)

"I pray we may learn from his example, that we might incorporate into our lives the great principles which he so beautifully taught; that we ourselves might emulate him;..." (Thomas Monson (First Presidency), Ensign, 6/1994, p.7.)

"I honor and revere [his] name... I delight to hear it; I love it. I love his doctrine... I am his witness." (2nd President Brigham Young, quoted in Ensign, 1/1996, p.7.)

"He died for those he loved. He reigns in the realms above." (3rd President John Taylor, Hymns #296, "The Seer, Joseph, The Seer." While this hymn was written in the 18th century, it is still in use as evidenced by its performance by the Mormon Tabernacle Choir during the 175th Semi-Annual General Conference of the LDS Church in October, 2005.)

"The more I learn of him, the more I love and revere him." (Apostle Joseph B. Wirthlin, Church News, 2/19/2005, p.5.)

"I look to him. I love him. I seek to follow him." (15th Gordon B. Hinckley, Church News, 12/13/2003, p.3.)

"He not only gave us joy, happiness and opportunity here, but also a great hope in the life to come." (Apostle L. Tom Perry, Church News, 7/3/1993, p.4.)

"Today, this Sabbath day, in many thousands of congregations, perhaps as many as twenty-one thousand, in many areas of the earth, our people have sung or will sing the praises of [him]." (15th President Gordon B. Hinckley, Ensign, 9/1994, p.62.)

"Of noble seed, of heavenly birth, he came to bless the sons of earth." (John Taylor, Hymns #296, "The Seer, Joseph, The Seer.")

He was "a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief." (BYU Professor Robert Millet, Ensign, 9/1994, p.19.)

"Church members are interested in learning more about [him] because they love him and they love the gospel he brought forth." (LDS Church Historian Glen M. Leonard, Church News, 12/6/1997, p.4.)

"How great indeed is our debt to him. ...Great is his glory,... We stand in reverence before him... Let us not forget him. Let not his memory be forgotten in the celebration of Christmas." (15th President Gordon B. Hinckley, Ensign, 12/1997, p.2.)

"...and he shall stand in due time on the earth, in the flesh, and fulfill that to which he is appointed." (Church News, 7/19/1994, p.5.)

"The light, provided to the world by [him], illuminates the confusion, clarifies the principles of the gospel, and helps lead men and women to their own eternal reward, if they will but endure to the end." (Church News, 12/13/1997, p.16.)

The "work that has been carried out by President Young and his brethren [of the Twelve] has been in accordance with the plans, and designs, and Spirit, and instructions of [him]." (George A. Smith (First Presidency), quoted in Church News, 12/20/1997, p.7.)

[chris37]

I’m not mocking religion, I am not practicing religion.

As far as I can see, religion is a mechanism for control, and those who practice it also seek to control, in fact they believe that they were commanded by God to control and are thus justified in doing so.

I do not believe in that.

[chris37]

Sharing the Gospel is not the same as attacking people with it.

[metmom]

And you don’t condemn Mormonism?

Did you look up svcw’s posting history?

And honestly, it’s not the religion (wrong as it was). She chose to submit to that for whatever reason.

Because unless you’re two years old and your parents can pick you up or someone can otherwise out muscle you, nobody can *make* you do anything. A grown woman can think for herself.

I’m an Evangelical Christian and know plenty of Pentecostal types and NEVER have encountered that kind of mentality, which, BTW, is completely unscriptural.

[chris37]

You don’t seem to be able to tolerate Mormons.

[chris37]

I know you will, as I have known you to do for sometime now, and I will speak out against you.

[reaganaut]

Muslims follow a false god. You are comparing apples and oragnges.

But if you think Christians and Muslims are the same - just become a Muslim.

Either Jesus is the ONLY way or He was a liar or lunatic.

Demons believe (actually KNOW) Jesus is the son of GOd - that doesn’t make them Christians.

[Colofornian]

Mormons will say that they don't worship Joseph Smith, yet a look at the above quotes sound a lot like things Christians would say about Christ, even using biblical terms that apply to Christ, yet the LDS apply them to Joseph Smith.

Which shows you how Lds regularly blaspheme Christ by usurping Him with Joseph Smith.

For a detailed breakdown of how the Mormon 'jesus' is distinctive from the Jesus of the Bible, see:

* Will 'any ole' 'Jesus' do? (Two Mormon leaders clamor 'no'; and I agree with that!) [Part 1]
* Lds leaders concede they worship, speak about, believe & acknowledge a different Jesus [Part II]
* 'Another Jesus': Does it matter if Jesus is distorted @ hands of Mormon leaders? [Finale: Part III]
* 'Another Jesus': Does it matter if Jesus is distorted @ hands of Mormon leaders? [Finale: Part IV

[chris37]

Is calling me Chrisie supposed to hurt my feelings?

It is your BELIEF that compels you to behave as you do, just as it is the BELIEF of Muslims that compels them to behave as they do.

Both of you believe you are justified, because God commanded you to do what you do.

I think mankind is utterly insane.

[svcw]

Ok, But at lest speak something that adds to the conversation.
If I state something about momronISM and you think its wrong - tell me why its wrong.
Just blathering and blathering is not adding to the conversation.
I will because of my experience with mormonISM and because we as Christians are required to call out false teachings, will continue to call out mormonISM as false.
I am curious as to why you are such a defender of mormonISM when you state you do not like ‘religion’ and know nothing about mormonISM.

[chris37]

You first. You are one of many instigators, though not in this particualr thread.

Leave them be and I’ll leave you be, simple as that.

[chris37]

Excuse me?

I have made a handful of posts in this thread and you call it so much time?

Do you have any idea how many Mormon bashing threads are started on this website?

Apparently not.

Give me a break.

[SENTINEL]

Mormonism is among the worst of the controlling "religions". Did you know that I was putting in 40-50 hours week when I was saved ? It it assumed, expected, demanded, and even audited ? I was a bishopric member and high preist like romney. Unpaid, in addition to work, family, and in my case full time college.

I went temporarily blind on three separate occasions from extreme sleep deprivation and fatigue.

I think maybe you inadvertantly got off on the wrong foot with the Inmans. We are warning to protect against what you claim to hate. Just back off son, it's under control here. We forgive you.

[chris37]

Muslims follow their god.

They are from a different part of the world.

I’m not going to become a Christian or a Muslim, because I do not practice religion.

I confess that on this day I am finding it hard to distinguish the two though. Seem to be different sides of the same coin to me.

Your God commands you to do this, their God commands them to do that...

I asked my God to give me His Strength and His wisdom, and He did. The only thing He asked from me in return was to love Him, and so I do.

[Colofornian]

She is free to believe whatever she wants. Why should she be free to attack others for what they believe?

Jesus was "free" to believe what He taught; yet He also attacked the religious hypocrites -- the Pharisees.

Truth has a rather exclusive claim to it.

Allow me to analogize. Surely you've heard the words "true" and "untrue" in some Rock song as some point...like Billy Joel: "Everyone is so untrue"

Well, truth is linked to not only to concepts but also to faithfulness (& by reverse, falsity is linked to UNfaithfulness)...and by virtue of its existence, rules out the whatever contrasts or opposes it.

(Just as "being true" = faithfulness to a partner and rules out others)

By its very nature, truth condemns that which is false.

You don't have to like that. You can call "red" "green" and continue thru whatever "red" intersections of life you want; yet you will pay a consequence.

Likewise, truth (as in God's Word) doesn't just play "offense" -- it plays defense:

3 For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. 4 The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. 5 We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ. (2 Corinthians 10:3-5)

Do you think Christianity is meant to be wimpy and warriorless?

3 Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt compelled to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to God’s holy people. (Jesus' brother, Jude, Jude 3)

[ansel12]

I have made a handful of posts in this thread and you call it so much time?

I would call it closer to three dozen, that is a very dedicated effort.

Attacking Christians and fighting for Mormonism with passion and dedication, just doesn't make sense to me.

[Elsie]

Guess Who? [Mormons don't worship of Joseph Smith???]

SURE they don't!!

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Any MORMONs reading the following want to disown what has been shown here?

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"He (Joseph Smith) is the man through whom God has spoken... yet I would not like to call him a savior, though in a certain capacity he was a god to us, and is to the nations of the earth, and will continue to be."

 - Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:321

 

 

"You call us fools; but the day will be, gentlemen and ladies, whether you belong to this Church or not, when you will prize brother Joseph Smith as the Prophet of the Living God, and look upon him as a god..."

- Herber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses 5:88

 

 

"If we get our salvation, we shall have to pass by him [Joseph Smith]; if we enter our glory, it will be through the authority he has received. We cannot get around him [Joseph Smith]"

- (as quoted in 1988 Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide, p. 142)

 

 

There is "no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God"

- Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190

 

 

"I tell you, Joseph holds the keys, and none of us can get into the celestial kingdom without passing by him. We have not got rid of him, but he stands there as the sentinel, holding the keys of the kingdom of God; and there are many of them beside him. I tell you, if we get past those who have mingled with us, and know us best, and have a right to know us best, probably we can pass all other sentinels as far as it is necessary, or as far as we may desire. But I tell you, the pinch will be with those that have mingled with us, stood next to us, weighed our spirits, tried us, and proven us: there will be a pinch, in my view, to get past them. The others, perhaps, will say, If brother Joseph is satisfied with you, you may pass. If it is all right with him, it is all right with me. Then if Joseph shall say to a man, or if brother Brigham say to a man, I forgive you your sins, "Whosoever sins ye remit they are remitted unto them;" if you who have suffered and felt the weight of transgression—if you have generosity enough to forgive the sinner, I will forgive him: you cannot have more generosity than I have. I have given you power to forgive sins, and when the Lord gives a gift, he does not take it back again."

 - Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p.154-155

 

 

 

"It is because the Lord called Joseph Smith that salvation is again available to mortal men.... If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation,"

 - Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 396, 670

 

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---

They succeeded in killing Joseph, but he had finished his work.

He was a servant of God, and gave us the Book of Mormon.

He said the Bible was right in the main, but, through the translators and others, many precious portions were suppressed, and several other portions were wrongly translated; and now his testimony is in force, for he has sealed it with his blood.

As I have frequently told them, no man in this dispensation will enter the courts of heaven, without the approbation of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Jun.

Who has made this so?

Have I?

Have this people?

Have the world?

No; but the Lord Jehovah has decreed it.

If I ever pass into the heavenly courts, it will be by the consent of the Prophet Joseph.

If you ever pass through the gates into the Holy City, you will do so upon his certificate that you are worthy to pass.

Can you pass without his inspection?

No; neither can any person in this dispensation, which is the dispensation of the fulness of times.

In this generation, and in all the generations that are to come, everyone will have to undergo the scrutiny of this Prophet.

They say that they killed Joseph, and they will yet come with their hats under their arms and bend to him; but what good will it do them, unless they repent?

They can come in a certain way and find favor, but will they?

 Brigham Young,

--JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES, vol. 8, p. 224

[Elsie]

Nice work to the ones that voted for nutty 3rd parties or stayed home.

Too bad the elite and 'true' conservatives did NOT listern to what they were warned about months ago: that a deceived MORMON could NOT win the job of POTUS; but NOOOOoooo! - they knew SO much more than us.

[svcw]

I’m not going to become a Christian

And there is your choice - it's called free will.

[Elsie]

I did not think the FR Pro Obama people would be back so soon.

What?

Them extremist, narrow minded Christians warned that ROMNEY couldn't win??

What the HELL do they know!

Run him anyway!!!

[ansel12]

I confess that on this day I am finding it hard to distinguish the two though.

Between Christianity and Islam you can't distinguish, but Mormonism has your fierce defense.

Lord spare us from frivolous posters who are merely goofing off.