Mid East Prophecy Update - October 21st, 2012 (Dispensational Caucus)

YouTube ^ | October 21, 2012 | Uploaded by alohabibleprophecy

[GiovannaNicoletta]

Mid East Prophecy Update - October 21st, 2012

Pastor JD talks about how that something significant may happen in the weeks ahead, prior to, and or after, this years elections.

[kjam22]

Not me... but I am one of those that received the good tidings of great joy. For unto me was born a savior, in the city of david.

[kjam22]

“I bring you good tidings of great joy which will be for all people”. Are you arguing the angel was only speaking to the shepherds?

[GiovannaNicoletta]

So, for example, all the Old Testament prophecies about the birth of the Messiah which were fulfilled by Jesus Christ were just coincidence?

Since the prophecies about the Messiah were written approximately 700 years before they were fulfilled, and didn't apply to the people who were alive when they were written, then those prophecies were irrelevant?

Using your logic about Scriptural prophecies, is that a correct conclusion about the Messianic prophecies found in the Old Testament?

[GiovannaNicoletta]

So they weren't written to you in particular, but to everyone else who would ever read the Bible and the Holy Spirit made a mistake by not including in the text everyone who would ever read the Bible?

Did the Holy Spirit screw up by limiting the instruction to follow the star to the place of Jesus' birth to the shepherds? He screwed up when He didn't write that everyone who would ever read the Bible should also follow the star to the place of Jesus' birth?

Is that what you're saying?

[kjam22]

You're making a kinda silly argument. Jesus obviously fulfilled the prophecy by being the Messiah. The prophecy was about him. Those that are still here at the end will be the ones that fulfill the prophecy of end times. The prophecy is about them.

It's pretty simple. Deriving which people groups that might still be here then based on the various groups that persons may or may not have been a part of at the time they heard the prophecy.... is a stretch. That's all I'm saying.

[kjam22]

I don’t follow the star, because I wasn’t there then. But I accept the testimony of those that did. The Angel’s announcement of the savior was for all mankind. I can’t believe you’re arguing differently than that.... really.

[GiovannaNicoletta]

But exactly who was instructed to follow the star to the place of Jesus' birth?

This is important so we can get to the bottom of exactly who Jesus was giving the details of the tribulation to in Matthew 24.

So who was given instruction to follow the star to the place of Jesus' birth? Was it the shepherds who were there to live through the Old Testament Messianic prophecy, or was it, say, people who were, for example, living in China and who weren't on the scene to live through the fulfillment of the prophecies?

[GiovannaNicoletta]

OK, so if Matthew 24 was directed at the Jewish disciples since the Church hadn't been established yet, then who will be living through and experiencing the details that Jesus gave in Matthew 24?

Where did Jesus tell the Church, which did not exist at the time of Matthew 24, that those prophecies applied to the Church?

[kjam22]

The shepherds were told to follow the star. You and I were told that the birth was for you and I. And we read it about it in Luke 2. The parable of the prodigal son was told to the pharisees. But it was equally for you and I. And that's why God preserved it all of these years. So you and I could read it.

If you really want to apply that standard you're setting, you have to say that nobody Jesus gave the prophecy of end times to is still alive, so the prophecy can't be fulfilled. But neither of us believes that.

[kjam22]

You don’t think Jesus knew the jewish disciples would be apostles in his church. Guy... you’re making a silly argument.

[GiovannaNicoletta]

And I can't believe that you're trying to make an argument that specific instructions that were given to people in ancient times, i.e. following a star to the place of Jesus' birth, applies to people living in the 21st century. If God is speaking to a particular audience, we have to take that into consideration when looking at the entire context of a Scriptural passage. It's called "rightly dividing the Word of God".

So we can basically agree that just as it's ludicrous to believe that God intended for people in the 21st century to follow a star to the place of Jesus' birth, it is equally foolish to believe that end time prophecies that are given to one specific group of people (the Jews) apply to all groups of people (the Church).

I'm glad we agree.

[kjam22]

YOu say... the prophecy was directed at the jewish disciples since the church hadn't been established yet.... that's just crazy. Those jewish disciples were the first apostles of the church.

I've seen scripture twisted before... but this is a step out there

[GiovannaNicoletta]

No, the instructions that were given to a specific group of people were not intended for everyone, nor is there any indication in the text that we are to take that passage and expand it to include everyone who would ever read the Bible.

There are Scriptures in the Old Testament where God tells a specific group of people, the ancient Hebrews, to go into a country and kill every human being and animal in it. Does that also apply to everyone who would ever read the Old Testament?

If you really want to apply that standard you're setting, you have to say that nobody Jesus gave the prophecy of end times to is still alive, so the prophecy can't be fulfilled. But neither of us believes that.

Have the events Jesus discussed in Matthew 24 ever taken place in the history of the world?

[kjam22]

The prophecy of the end time, to those that would see the sign of the son of man coming in the skys... can only apply to those who will be alive then.

You want to start with a supposition and then say, since my supposition is correct, that means this piece of scripture must mean whatever.

Guy you got it backwards.

[GiovannaNicoletta]

Really? Then give me the Scriptures that were written after the Church was established that tells us that the Church will go through the events that Jesus warned the Jewish disciples about in Matthew 24.

Give me the part of the text in Matthew 24 where it indicates that those passages apply to anyone but the Jewish disciples whom Jesus directed it to.

Give me any indication in Matthew 24 that Jesus meant it for something and a people that did not exist.

[GiovannaNicoletta]

The prophecy of the end time, to those that would see the sign of the son of man coming in the skys... can only apply to those who will be alive then.

The issue is not who will be alive then, the issue is who will be on earth to witness Jesus coming in the sky.

I need the Scripture from you that tells us that the Church will be on earth to witness Jesus coming in the sky.

[kjam22]

People who have their idea, and then read into scripture what is necessary to support their postion....

It's like you say.."Oh yeah... the apostles of the church weren't apostles yet, in fact they weren't even the church yet... so the church wasn't the ones who this prophecy of end times was about. It has to be jewish people, because they were just jewish people at the time the prophecy was given." (as if God didn't know they would in less than a year be the church).

Guy...seriously

[GiovannaNicoletta]

Give me the Scripture which states that the Church will be on earth to witness Jesus coming in the sky and will be here on earth to experience what Jesus discussed in Matthew 24.

If you don't have the Scripture to support and validate your belief that Matthew 24 applies to the Church, then you have no credibility.

Produce the Scripture to support your assertions.

[kjam22]

You're making this argument..."Oh yeah... the apostles of the church weren't apostles yet, in fact they weren't even the church yet... so the church wasn't the ones who this prophecy of end times was about. It has to be jewish people, because they were just jewish people at the time the prophecy was given." (as if God didn't know they would in less than a year be the church)..... and then talking about credibility.

You can't be for real. This is like a candid camera moment?

[GiovannaNicoletta]

Give me the Scripture to support your assertions and while you're at it, you can give me where in Matthew 24 Jesus referred to an institution that did not exist.

You're not doing too well here. You haven't been able to post any validating Scripture that supports your beliefs which proves that what you believe is in contradiction to what God told us.

Last chance for you to redeem yourself and prove yourself correct: where is the Scripture that supports your belief that the Church will be on earth to experience the events of Matthew 24 and where did Jesus anywhere in Matthew 24 indicate that what He said applied to anyone but who He was speaking to and where do you see in that passage that you are to take it upon yourself to change the intention of the Scripture to include people who did not exist?

If you have the Scripture to back you up, you'll post it now. If you don't have the Scripture, we'll all know that your doctrine is man-made and contradicts Scripture.

There you go.